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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To worry that people think the price cap means unlimited energy

259 replies

Shortjanet · 06/09/2022 21:43

I've read quite a few comments here where posters seem to think fixed or capped energy prices mean that you can pay a set or limited amount for unlimited energy. It's quite worrying to think how much debt people might run up. The way the headlines are describing it as "bills capped to £x" or similar is helping to fuel the misunderstanding (no pun intended) I think. AIBU to wish the media were being clearer that caps and fixes apply to each kWh used and standing charges, not the total you can pay.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 10:38

I had to show my DD (Head of Maths department in a school) how to work out her bills and her energy useage.

It’s not something most people have ever had to think about before.

MasterBeth · 08/09/2022 10:43

The obvious analogy is with petrol. If the government capped the price at £2 a litre, when it was otherwise going to rise to £3 a litre, it would still be expensive and you'd still have to think about how much you used.

etulosba · 08/09/2022 10:46

you don't even have to do that these days, they write the price per unit on the labels in the supermarket

I’ve just visited a supermarket. The unit price shown on the labels is not always correct.

bellac11 · 08/09/2022 10:47

etulosba · 08/09/2022 10:46

you don't even have to do that these days, they write the price per unit on the labels in the supermarket

I’ve just visited a supermarket. The unit price shown on the labels is not always correct.

You're correct about that, and it makes for very difficult comparisons anyway when half the fruit and veg is sold as price per kilo/grams and the other half is sold as price per unit (courgettes/tomatoes/apples etc)

TakeTheOffPisteRoute · 08/09/2022 12:27

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 10:38

I had to show my DD (Head of Maths department in a school) how to work out her bills and her energy useage.

It’s not something most people have ever had to think about before.

She must interview well if that's the case....!

BarbaraofSeville · 08/09/2022 12:31

Yes, I was a bit Hmm at the claim that a 'Head of Maths' had to be shown how to work out her bill. There's nothing particularly advanced involved and most older primary school children would be able to do it.

cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 19:30

I just had this conversation at work - someone announced that the price of energy had been capped at £2500.

We then had a conversation about what this meant.

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:27

So you automatically knew the formula for how to work out your gas bill from reading your meter did you? 🙄
DD had no idea of her useage in kwh because she’s never had to think about it before she bought a house last year.

cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 21:36

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:27

So you automatically knew the formula for how to work out your gas bill from reading your meter did you? 🙄
DD had no idea of her useage in kwh because she’s never had to think about it before she bought a house last year.

Is this to me?

I can read a gas bill.
I can use Google.
I have a Smart Meter.

When your DD signed up to pay gas and electric, did she wonder how they would work out how it would be paid for?

When I got my first rental place, I took meter readings and submitted them. I then got a paper bill showing me how much energy I had used.

I am sure your DD could find out how she is charged for power.

TakeTheOffPisteRoute · 08/09/2022 21:45

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:27

So you automatically knew the formula for how to work out your gas bill from reading your meter did you? 🙄
DD had no idea of her useage in kwh because she’s never had to think about it before she bought a house last year.

Kids have to learn simple algebra at school. Calculating a gas bill is simply that: very simple algebra with 2 variables...

1 - how many units of gas used

2 - duration covered by the gas bill

This is very very basic stuff.

Any teacher (not just a maths teacher) should be able to work this out.

It's frightening, if not shameful, that DD as a head of maths can't. I honestly fear for and pity the kids she's teaching, and I'm sorry if that's putting too fine a point on it

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:55

You have to actually know the formula for the conversion in the 1st place, of course she can bloody work it out with the formula.

She’s got a First in Maths ffs.
Did YOU know what rate you were paying per kwh or what the price cap was this time last year because I certainly didn’t, energy was so cheap we didn’t need to.

cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 21:58

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:27

So you automatically knew the formula for how to work out your gas bill from reading your meter did you? 🙄
DD had no idea of her useage in kwh because she’s never had to think about it before she bought a house last year.

How do you think you work out your gas bill?

Gas is a bit more complicated as you have to convert from cubic metres / feet to KWH. This is on the bill.

If you know your KWH and you know the cost per KWH, then you can work out your gas bill.

NewBootsAndRanty · 08/09/2022 21:59

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:55

You have to actually know the formula for the conversion in the 1st place, of course she can bloody work it out with the formula.

She’s got a First in Maths ffs.
Did YOU know what rate you were paying per kwh or what the price cap was this time last year because I certainly didn’t, energy was so cheap we didn’t need to.

I've known mine for years - money's been tight enough for me to have to.

cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 22:00

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:55

You have to actually know the formula for the conversion in the 1st place, of course she can bloody work it out with the formula.

She’s got a First in Maths ffs.
Did YOU know what rate you were paying per kwh or what the price cap was this time last year because I certainly didn’t, energy was so cheap we didn’t need to.

And it's on your gas bill.
And available on the internet

Someone with a First in Maths should be able to access that information.

Yes - in Oct 21, I was paying 3p per KWH.
It was clearly stated on my gas bill

When I signed up for my deal, I was told what the costs per KWH and the standing charge was

TakeTheOffPisteRoute · 08/09/2022 22:02

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:55

You have to actually know the formula for the conversion in the 1st place, of course she can bloody work it out with the formula.

She’s got a First in Maths ffs.
Did YOU know what rate you were paying per kwh or what the price cap was this time last year because I certainly didn’t, energy was so cheap we didn’t need to.

No, you don't need to know the formula, you should be able to work it out and doing so is basic - that's my point.

No I didn't know the price / KWH or cap this time last year but that's irrelevant.

For what's it's worth, I still don't know the price per kWh... I'm happy to be able to work out my spend by knowing roughly how I compare to average and scaling from there.

If it comes to the time where I need a more accurate estimate then I'll dig out the actual costs / unit and standing charge and calculate it - without consulting my mum - simple 🤷‍♂️

cakeorwine · 08/09/2022 22:06

You don't even need to know how to convert m3 to KWH

You just need to look at your bill and see how much energy they think you have used - look at the readings, look at the conversion and you will see the KWH.

You need to know that each KWH will cost you a certain amount.
You need to know that you pay a daily standing charge.

And that's it.

DreamOfSilence · 08/09/2022 22:31

BarbaraofSeville · 06/09/2022 22:10

They should be reporting it as price capped per KWh

Not sure that will help. If people are unable to understand 'The price cap is £X for typical use' and not think to look at their own circumstances and how they might compare to an average or go off and read up about it, they're not going to understand 'A pence per unit for electricity plus B pence per day standing charge plus C pence per unit for gas plus D pence per day standing charge' so if you want to know how much it will cost each month all you have do is solve the equation

(XA + 365B + YC + 365D)/12 where X is the number of electric units you use each year and Y is the number of gas units you use.

There was someone on a thread earlier claiming that people were unable to multiply or divide by 4 to work out which bottle of milk was best value, so I'm not sure quoting kWh rates is going to help anyone who hasn't done the bit of reading behind what the price cap figure actually means. It's not a secret, Martin Lewis must have said it a million times on TV and radio in the last few months.

Wow. Did none of these people ever attend school?

BarbaraofSeville · 09/09/2022 03:50

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:55

You have to actually know the formula for the conversion in the 1st place, of course she can bloody work it out with the formula.

She’s got a First in Maths ffs.
Did YOU know what rate you were paying per kwh or what the price cap was this time last year because I certainly didn’t, energy was so cheap we didn’t need to.

I had a basic idea of the cost and the formula but there's never been any need to commit either to memory because its printed on the bill, literally 'showing their workings' to use a term that a maths teacher will be familiar with.

And I disagree that energy used to be 'too cheap to worry about' it's always been a significant bill for most people and has never been cheap as far as the planet is concerned.

justfiveminutes · 09/09/2022 06:08

This has been a huge news story for the past year. I didn't pay a lot of attention to how my energy bills were calculated before then, but it was not difficult to find the information and educate myself once I realised that I needed to. I am not surprised some people are still confused as wilful ignorance starts young and everybody expects to be spoonfed now.

cakeorwine · 09/09/2022 07:53

Did YOU know what rate you were paying per kwh or what the price cap was this time last year because I certainly didn’t, energy was so cheap we didn’t need to

So you didn't bother to see the cost of what you were paying for?

I presume you realised that the more energy you used, the more it would cost?

Or were you one of those people who assumed that because you paid the same amount by DD every month, it didn't matter how much you used because you had fixed?

Madcats · 10/09/2022 13:34

"Did YOU know what rate you were paying per kwh or what the price cap was this time last year because I certainly didn’t, energy was so cheap we didn’t need to".

I certainly did because it was at about this time last year that BP pulled the plug on our provider PurePlanet and our fixed rate deal got cancelled! I remember how shocked we were to discover we'd be paying £600/more per annum.

Little did we know what was to come.....

alwaysmovingforwards · 12/09/2022 07:25

BorgQueen · 08/09/2022 21:55

You have to actually know the formula for the conversion in the 1st place, of course she can bloody work it out with the formula.

She’s got a First in Maths ffs.
Did YOU know what rate you were paying per kwh or what the price cap was this time last year because I certainly didn’t, energy was so cheap we didn’t need to.

Yes I've always known what my deal rates are and how the utility bills are calculated.
It's a fundamental & very basic aspect of running home imo.
I assumed everyone did this - why would anyone choose to not understand things that affect them and live in ignorance?

But this thread really has open my eyes.

Shortjanet · 29/09/2022 11:42

So just seen this in the guardian. Apparently Liz truss doesn't understand it either. Fantastic.

"Truss criticised for wrongly saying no household will pay more than £2,500 under energy price guarantee
In her interview round this morning Liz Truss sometimes gave the impression that her energy price guarantee will mean that no household will face a fuel bill of more than £2,500 a year.

That is not correct. Under the plan, unit prices are capped at a rate that means that the average household will pay no more than £2,500. But if you use more gas and electricity than average homes do, you will pay more. By the laws of maths, half of people will pay more than the average.

Some of the reporting on this probably has not been as clear as it should have been because headlines resist subtlety and making the point that average bills are notionally capped at £2,500 a year probably means more to people than explaining that unit prices are actually capped at 34.0p/kWh for electricity and 10.3p/kWh for gas.

In her interviews, when talking about the £2,500 figures, Truss mostly said it applied to a “typical” bill. (Typical is not the same as average, but never mind.)

But sometimes she said all bills would be capped at £2,500. She told Radio Leeds that people in West Yorkshire would not face energy bills of £6,000. She went on: “Through the energy price guarantee, the maximum will be £2,500.” And she told Radio Lancashire: “This is why we’ve taken action to make sure people’s bills are no more than £2,500.”"

OP posts:
IncompleteSenten · 29/09/2022 12:05

Oh my god. That woman. 🤦 As if her cheese obsession isn't stupid enough.

NewBootsAndRanty · 29/09/2022 13:39

Jfc 🤦‍♀️