Page 7 | To worry that people think the price cap means unlimited energy

Shortjanet · 2022-09-06T20:43:34+00:00

I've read quite a few comments here where posters seem to think fixed or capped energy prices mean that you can pay a set or limited amount for unlimited energy. It's quite worrying to think how much debt people might run up. The way the headlines are describing it as "bills capped to £x" or similar is helping to fuel the misunderstanding (no pun intended) I think. AIBU to wish the media were being clearer that caps and fixes apply to each kWh used and standing charges, not the total you can pay.

bellac11 · 07/09/2022 20:54

Angelicapickles1 · 07/09/2022 20:49

Thats what I am saying. That if electricity and gas prices were priced more like Petrol to the consumer there would be less confusion.

Get rid of standing charges which most people don't know why they pay them or factor them into the cost

Just have a capped unit price for electricity and gas. customers can choose between companies based on service, apps , options for payment etc.

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Yes absolutely and the standing charge is a complete rip off

FrankLampardsBrokenHand · 07/09/2022 20:54

Or, and it's a revolutionary prospect, companies could present their bills in the simplest formats possible to ensure the majority can understand them without needing to seek help.

Original poster

Shortjanet · 07/09/2022 21:00

FrankLampardsBrokenHand · 07/09/2022 20:54

Or, and it's a revolutionary prospect, companies could present their bills in the simplest formats possible to ensure the majority can understand them without needing to seek help.

Yep. So much onus on consumers to read the small print and none on the providers to make their charging clear.

OP posts:

cakeorwine · 07/09/2022 21:03

As another poster above has said, someone is posting about the cap thinking its just a blanket yearly cap. They would not be looking at their bills thinking that they dont understand it and ask for help, they dont know that they dont know it

But a bill has an amount for the month / quarter (normally in big bold letters), an amount received, and then a credit / debit amount.

And that bill will be different to the previous month / quarter.

If people just don't even look at their bills at all - because they just assume they are on the same monthly price that they pay every month, regardless of how much they use, then they are going to be in for a big shock. Hopefully it will prompt people to take more interest in their bills.

cakeorwine · 07/09/2022 21:16

Shortjanet · 07/09/2022 21:00

Yep. So much onus on consumers to read the small print and none on the providers to make their charging clear.

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I don't think this is too bad.

To worry that people think the price cap means unlimited energy

alwaysmovingforwards · 07/09/2022 21:18

FrankLampardsBrokenHand · 07/09/2022 20:54

Or, and it's a revolutionary prospect, companies could present their bills in the simplest formats possible to ensure the majority can understand them without needing to seek help.

I genuinely can't see how the energy bill could be simpler.

Standing charge is required. Whether you are a light user or heavy, the infrastructure cost to gets the stuff to your house costs the same. So it can't be rolled into unit price.

Secondly, let's not forget that the utility companies set up monthly direct debits to help people!!
Previously it was a quarterly bill based on readings and often 3 or 4 times higher in winter.
People complained.. we can't budget properly!
Oh ffs they said.. ok.. We'll estimate you for the year and break it down and bill you monthly. That way you don't have big fluctuations and it's easier to budget for. Your DD will be over paying and building credit in summer and underpaying/ eating into that credit in winter. When we take exact readings, we'll flex the direct debit around in case your usage comes less / more than the estimate. By year end we'll be all square.
The people were grateful.
Then a % of them weren't because they don't get it, reading bills is boring and if you don't get something then someone else should sort it for you.

You couldn't make it up. It would be laughable were it not so serious.

Mywatchis · 07/09/2022 21:18

Should be taught in maths.
By maths teachers.

It's applied maths and physics.

Energy costs 25p per KWH. A XBox is 200 watts. How much money does it cost to run per hour?

Please don't laugh if I've got this totally wrong but do you work out the sum as 200÷25x60=£4.80?

Mywatchis · 07/09/2022 21:19

That can't be right, it surely doesn't cost £4.80 per hour to run an x box unless the figures are entirely fictitious

Sooverthisnow · 07/09/2022 21:22

Those of you who are being scornful of others for not understanding their bills should be ashamed of yourselves. Many people simply just don’t understand how it works. We should be trying to help them, not shaking heads in disbelief.
How is that going to help educate?

justmeand2DC · 07/09/2022 21:23

Is it 5 p per hour, because it uses 0.2 kW to run?

bellac11 · 07/09/2022 21:24

Mywatchis · 07/09/2022 21:19

That can't be right, it surely doesn't cost £4.80 per hour to run an x box unless the figures are entirely fictitious

50p per hour

Sooverthisnow · 07/09/2022 21:24

@Mywatchis 200w is O.2kw ( 1000w = 1kw)

bellac11 · 07/09/2022 21:25

bellac11 · 07/09/2022 21:24

50p per hour

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Completely wrong, 5p, I thought it was 2000 watts!!!

OnTheBoardwalk · 07/09/2022 21:27

I like the Apple example and agree using the word 'cap' has caused the confusion

I’m worried about elderly parents going cold for fear of bills over winter.

They did start over paying a couple of months ago. Before that they were reducing payments saying they didn’t want to be in credit with the company. They now see this absolutely isn’t going to be the case the next bill

FrankLampardsBrokenHand · 07/09/2022 21:27

But my bill is not laid out in that nice user friendly way that some others are. And whilst it makes sense to me because I understand it, to lots of people it is confusing. And when something is confusing, the natural reaction is to avoid it. To add to the matter, I don't receive a bill, the onus is on me logging into the app to view the bill, so it also requires a level of tech ability.

Mywatchis · 07/09/2022 21:28

Thank God it's not just me, you don't know how relieved I am and I don't think I'm particularly thick or uneducated. I just look at figures and they swim in front of my eyes, it was making my brain hurt trying to work it out but then looking at the answer and logic telling me it couldn't possibly be right but not knowing how to solve it. I went to grammar school too can you believe 🤦🏼‍♀️

cakeorwine · 07/09/2022 21:28

Sooverthisnow · 07/09/2022 21:22

Those of you who are being scornful of others for not understanding their bills should be ashamed of yourselves. Many people simply just don’t understand how it works. We should be trying to help them, not shaking heads in disbelief.
How is that going to help educate?

I get people may not understand their bills.
What do you think an adult should do if they don't understand a bill?

Mywatchis · 07/09/2022 21:29

Sooverthisnow

You are really lovely, thank you.

Your apples example is brilliant 🙂

Mywatchis · 07/09/2022 21:30

What do you think an adult should do if they don't understand a bill?

Ask for help like I just did and a lovely poster explained it to me.

FrankLampardsBrokenHand · 07/09/2022 21:31

And to compound matters, your usage will rarely mirror your payment if you're paying by fixed direct debit.

I'm seeing a huge amount of people posting on social media that they've cancelled their direct debit because of this, implying that they're being ripped off by their energy provider, failing to appreciate that the lower usage now offsets the higher usage in the winter months.

Sooverthisnow · 07/09/2022 21:31

People stop asking for help if they are belittled.

Mywatchis · 07/09/2022 21:32

Back to the sum for a second, it looks like you multiplied by 100 but there are only 60 mins in an hour?

forinborin · 07/09/2022 21:33

Sooverthisnow · 06/09/2022 22:14

We should be teaching financial literacy in schools. It’s a life skill.

Absolutely not. Teach normal mathematics. Things like taxation rules and financial products change every couple of years.

cakeorwine · 07/09/2022 21:34

Mywatchis · 07/09/2022 21:18

Should be taught in maths.
By maths teachers.

It's applied maths and physics.

Energy costs 25p per KWH. A XBox is 200 watts. How much money does it cost to run per hour?

Please don't laugh if I've got this totally wrong but do you work out the sum as 200÷25x60=£4.80?

A way to work it out is this.

A 1000 watt device when it is run for 1 hour uses 1 KWH of energy.
(That's because 1000 watts is 1 kilowatt)

If I use a 2000 watt device for 1 hour, it uses 2 KWH of energy as it is twice as powerful and is running for the same time.

If I use a 2000 watt device but only for 1/2 hour, it will use 1 KWH of energy as it's twice as powerful but only running for 1/2 the time.
......................................................................................................................................

A 200 watt device is 1/5 as powerful as a 1000 watt device. (Because 1000 / 200 = 5 so 200 is 1/5 of 1000)

So if I run a 200 watt device for 1 hour, it will use 1/5 KWH which is 0.2 KWH

As it uses 1/5 of a KWH, the cost per hour is 25p / 5 = 5p

bellac11 · 07/09/2022 21:34

FrankLampardsBrokenHand · 07/09/2022 21:31

And to compound matters, your usage will rarely mirror your payment if you're paying by fixed direct debit.

I'm seeing a huge amount of people posting on social media that they've cancelled their direct debit because of this, implying that they're being ripped off by their energy provider, failing to appreciate that the lower usage now offsets the higher usage in the winter months.

Absolutely.

I couldnt see your bill properly but it looks like mine, gobbeldy gook with numbers everywhere and quite difficult to understand

Also like you I have to log in to the website, I dont find it easy to find what Im looking for on my account, I flip in and out of the different sections but never quite find what Im looking for.