To worry that people think the price cap means unlimited energy

[Shortjanet]

I've read quite a few comments here where posters seem to think fixed or capped energy prices mean that you can pay a set or limited amount for unlimited energy. It's quite worrying to think how much debt people might run up. The way the headlines are describing it as "bills capped to £x" or similar is helping to fuel the misunderstanding (no pun intended) I think. AIBU to wish the media were being clearer that caps and fixes apply to each kWh used and standing charges, not the total you can pay.

Yes Truss made that claim several times during her round of disastrous radio interviews this morning.

The PM is either a liar or a moron. Perhaps both.

I was just coming on here to post about that. Most families are more than the average household of 2.4 people, and most will be paying more than £2,500.

If the PM doesn't understand it, god help anyone else.

R4 repeated quite a few soundbites from the local radio interviews (and I probably listened to the rest on Twitter).

NOBODY CORRECTED HER

Where is Ofgem? Why aren't they doing anything?

I'm starting to think they voted Truss in so that we'll be grateful to have Sunak in or Johnson back!

Yanbu
Truss is as much as a pawn in Tory party power plays as May was.

Truss definitely gave lots of misleading statements in these interviews, and the "nobody will pay more than £2,500" is downright abysmal.

The correct terminology is Typical Domestic Consumption Values (TDCV) and they are set by Ofgem. These are for gas/electricity in kWh:
Low - 8,000/1,900
Medium -12,000/2,900
High - 17,000/4,600

You have also fell into the trap of calling these "average" - they are not - they are "typical" (Truss was actually correct when she used this term). Their real and original purpose was mainly to use for comparisons between energy suppliers.

You have also made the error of saying "By the laws of maths, half of people will pay more than the average" when it is the median that half would pay more than - the average (mean) could be higher or lower than the median (although it was actually median bills that Ofgem used when deriving the TDCVs).

The table in the picture shows actual average (mean) consumption by region. Note that only 2 regions (London & North East) use less electricity than the typical medium user, and only 3 regions (London, North Walest & South West) use less gas than the typical medium user.

NOBODY CORRECTED HER
Where is Ofgem?

Perhaps Ofgem could speak to Keir Starmer as well?

Labour leader Keir Starmer has announced new proposals to freeze the energy price cap to stop households paying more when prices are set to rise this winter.

Starmer said the plan would mean people would not pay a "penny more" on their energy bills later this year...

www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-lays-out-energy-overhaul-to-stop-costofliving-crisis-at-source

@jcyclops The main text (in quotations) is a cut and paste from the guardian article I read. Sorry, I should have bolded it to make it clearer. That said, you are quite right I have used average rather than typical elsewhere. Really interesting info, it seems like the situation is even more misleading than I'd realised!

Rachel Reeves has said that people in the UK will not see their costs increase by “a single penny” under Labour’s plan to tackle rapidly rising gas and electricity bills.

labourlist.org/2022/08/reeves-bills-will-not-rise-by-a-single-penny-under-labours-energy-plans/

Given how pervasive the misunderstanding seems to be I'm even more worried about people getting stung with ridiculous bills. It's awful.

It means that the amount the energy company can charge you is capped. If you were in an average home (3 bed semi) this would mean that you would pay around £2500 for normal use. This is approx double what it was a year or so ago. If it's a cold winter and you use more than 'average' then you will pay more as you will use more kwh.

It means that the amount the energy company can charge you is capped. If you were in an average home (3 bed semi) this would mean that you would pay around £2500 for normal use. This is approx double what it was a year or so ago. If it's a cold winter and you use more than 'average' then you will pay more as you will use more kwh.

She asked this on September 6th. And there are two hundred and thirty six posts on this thread. Her question has been fully answered.

Ah one of those threads that rumble on by always appearing active 😁As you were.

If the cost of an apple is the same, has its cost increased IF you eat the same amount of apples?

The cost of 'apples' has increased. Truss has reduced this cost per apple but if you eat a lot of apples, then you still pay a lot. There is no maximum amount you will pay overall.

*apples is a metaphor. Obviously. Or is it an analogy.

C'mon, adults with normal brain function can use google and surely can understand what's been platered everywhere about unit rates. Their bill even shows them how to do the calculation on a calculator on a phone. It's not hard. Everyone has 14 years of free education so should be able to type A x B = C into their phone?

This isn't complex maths and if an adult with no disabilities can't figure this out something is very, very wrong and they should be enrolling in functional maths courses at a local college.

Inflation is a different concept but again not difficult to understand at a basic level. With 10% inflation you can expect prices to be 10% higher in your currency next year. That means with no payrise your pay os worth 10% less as it buys 10% less goods. Some things will go up more than others - given this inflation is driven by Brexit and other thong devaluing GBP against other currencies, basics that we import a large share of that are priced in USD not GBP like food and fuel will likely go up by more than 10% even if that is the average UK inflation rate - but that is the basic principle. Any "payrise" or "tax cut" that is less than inflation means you are poorer than last year. Not complicated. How could any adult without disabilities not understand this OP? It's not remotely complex.

Yup, the reporting and phrasing around this is shameful. I’ve explained to a couple of family members the “right” way to look at it. But it’s worrying re the amount of people who don’t understand.

And it annoys me when, on threads like these, you get people implying you’re thick if you don’t understand. The wording of the government and the media really doesn’t help. I don’t believe in spoon-feeding, but issues like this need clear messaging in layman’s terms - and £2,500 cap does not fit the bill (so to speak!)

For those who might come across as a bit sneering re other peoples understanding, maybe divert that energy to helping them grasp the basics. We are moving further into shit times, so helping out where you can is more important than ever.

Even Liz Truss said it did on the radio, that's how thick she is. It's an average, many people will pay less & some will pay more.

Totally without empathy - and stop bringing disability into it, it’s bloody offensive.

There are people who, through no fault of their own, will still struggle with shit like this.

It’s great that you get/understand all of this. Just don’t berate everyone else. Use your knowledge to give a little bit of help/advice to those in your circle. Hopefully others will do the same in their circles.

It's a confusing subject people are trying to grapple with.

She's a complete liar and is deliberately misleading and lots of people will misunderstand this, its nothing to do with intelligence or disability

And I dont know why people are quoting Labours 'plans', they're not in power,, their plans are void.

You need to know that you pay for each unit of gas and electricity you use.

Plus a daily standing charge.

If you know roughly how many units you use, then you can work out your bill

However, it used to be that you could only work out your bill for the next 6 months as the cost of energy would change every 6 months and people use energy at different rates during the year.

With the new promise, the Government has said that energy prices for each unit will be fixed for the next 2 years

@cakeorwine clearest and most concise explanation I've seen 👏🏻

People just need to find a way of eating fewer apples.

And the people who get the apples of the tree are making lots of money that they didn't expect. Because one of the people who gets apples from trees is really upset with other people and is refusing to sell them and is in fact destroying the apples.

(I can really stretch that metaphor!!)

There has just been a really clear piece on BBC Breakfast this morning about how everyone's bill will be different and it all depends on how much you use. They were really hammering it.