To think that some people have become accustomed to living well beyond their means

[LaDamaDeElche]

I was having a conversation with a close family member and, as everyone is doing at the moment, we were talking about the crazy cost of living now and they brought up another family member. Family member A said that Family Member B was worried as they and their partner are on a low wage and they don't know how they would cope and that they're always struggling as it is and saying they have no money. Family Member B goes on a very expensive holiday yearly, think 4/5* all inclusive for 10-14 days, which costs in the region of 5k and every celebration, like valentines, anniversary, birthday etc goes to a really high end restaurant, costing £££.

AIBU to think that this lifestyle isn't sustainable for most people, apart from the well off. If you're struggling to pay your bills it's madness to spend that kind of money when you could do something just as enjoyable and cheaper. Family member A though I was unreasonable to suggest maybe Family member B should cut back and do affordable things more in keeping with what they earn, because apparently everyone deserves luxury things, even if it puts you in debt, as life is for living. I agree everyone deserves to treat themselves, but not if it's going to put you in a ridiculous amount of debt. Before anyone says it's not my business, their lack of money is always being talked about to me and how hard things are etc, so I'm not just sticking my nose in where it's not wanted lol. This is definitely a thing in my family, the feeling of having to go on a really expensive holiday and fine dining on special occasions, whether you can afford it or not. Person B is certainly not in the minority on this. Family member A often goes on two/three 5* hols a year and I have no idea how (as they have a decent, but normal job) unless they have a side hustle playing the stock market or some other secret lucrative business 😂

We don't have much money and when we can't afford something and we say we can't do it, there's definitely a sense of irritation and "just put it on the credit card", "life is for living" etc etc.

All you can do is just keep saying no if you come under pressure to spend beyond your means and say you preference not to incur debt . And if you are fond of family member B, comfort yourself with the fact that the cost of living hike will mean fewer luxuries but they won't go under, as there is clearly some spare budget there to be trimmed if necessary. There's no harm in sympathising with B - "yes, it's rubbish, prices are going up so much. At least you and I are lucky that we've got room to cut back a bit, at least- some people are already on the breadline. But such a shame not to be able to have a few more luxuries at the moment." Etc...

We are comfortable, because we would not spend when we didn't have it, I saw the 2008 crash coming and we operated on cash and debit cards only ever since, large purchases aside.

You cut your cloth to suit your measure.

Tbh I wouldn't discuss things like that with them. Change the subject. That's what I'd do, anyway. It sounds a bit fraught otherwise.

Yes things like this annoy me too. Saying how tight things are and that they can't afford really neccessary repairs in their home then in the next breath talking about their next holiday. Different priorities I suppose.

Obv going on expensive hols when you can’t afford it is daft but…. Many people are going to be forced to live beyond their means as living within their means will involve no heating/ petrol to get to work etc so in that respect your title IBU. I wonder sometimes whether people are having to accrue so much debt to cover the basics such as rent and energy that borrowing an extra £1K for a holiday feels insignificant….

Oh is it time in the financial crisis for people to trot this nonsense out already?
YABU, you have no idea how they pay for the holidays “every year”. No one knew this was coming last year and most people book hols in advance.
Just because someone had nice things at some point in their lives doesn’t mean they’re always going to be well off. The only people who that would work for is when generational wealth is at play.
What do you want from this thread? People to denigrate your relatives for going on holidays? Why is that important to you?

We went looking for a holiday last night for next year for DH and I and also DS and his GF, the prices were utterly ridiculous we won't be going, we are retired and probably won't feel the need for a holiday (if we do we will cross that bridge when we come to it)

We decided it would be cheaper to give DS and GF a generous donation towards whatever they want to do, it will still cost less.

We will pay the deposit, they can then pay the instalments and we will then give them back what they have paid out and they can use it as spending money.

I refuse to go on holidays just for the sake of it. This is why people get into debt.

I cut my cloth but I use credit cards for everything I buy.

I know exactly how Person B pays for the holidays, on the credit card, they've been in trouble with this before and had to be helped out of debt, hence living beyond their means. I'm not trotting anything out, I'm on Mumsnet posting about a conversation someone had with me and frequently has with me about how badly off this person is financially and about how I should do x, y and z, that we can't afford, because life is for living.

I'm far from comfortable, but luckily don't have any debt now. I learnt my lesson the hard way about debt when I was lone parent and was so skint that I was putting food shopping on the credit card and got into a bit of a mess. Thankfully I went to StepChange before it got too bad and managed to get on top of things. It took years though.

I do try to, but Family member B is always complaining to Family member A and I think they end up venting to other close family members as they are really worried that B won't be able to pay their bills. This is why I don't understand the thinking about the expensive holidays. If someone was always pleading poverty to me and I'd helped them out financially, I would find it unbelievable that they are spending so much on a holiday each year.

YANBU OP I’ve got people in my circle that are like this. They tend to be the same people complaining about being always ‘exhausted’ but stay out late almost every night, usually moaning about how much ‘life admin’ they have to do but can’t find the time.

And the worst about these types is they try to guilt you into following their spendthrift ways. Unfortunately I’m related to some of them 🙄

I agree, but then I’m old and I’ve been skint before. And the only way out was to spend little and make sure my indulgences were inexpensive. The only help I got from the bank was the useful suggestion to put more money into my account to avoid being continuously overdrawn
Fortunately, it’s not your problem, I suggest you harumph, hoik your bosom and reduce the time you spend listening to them complain about no holidays and whatnot. Possibly silently #bekind
If it annoys you, avoid the conversation.

Yes, I think some people's expectations and sense of entitlement are way off.

Always has been some like that, hence the old saying "all fur coat and no knickers".

Perhaps exacerbated by social media these days. No point in telling them that they're living beyond their means, just don't ever bail them out.

I will regularly have a moan about bills and plead poverty in my family to stop the fuckers asking to borrow money off me because I’m not paying for any of their bills at the expense of my holidays and that’s what my family would like me to do, perhaps they feel the same ?

Definitely not the same. B has been in trouble with debt before and get a lot of help from A, not so much with big handouts (although one time they had to help them with a debt that the bailiffs were chasing them for) but food shopping, childcare (because they can't afford to pay a childminder), taxing their car etc.

YANBU but I think we probably also need to acknowledge that people are subjected to daily advertising messages that ask them to equate their lifestyle with their own self worth. That their personal value goes up when they have the shiniest new toy. That to live without nice things is to live a half life.

For lots of people that messaging is so invasive it shapes how they think and how they feel about themsleves. And so they keep spending because a lifetime of advertising has told them that they are only worth something when they are spending money.

I think that's it in a nutshell, the sense of entitlement, and the people who are enabling this sense of entitlement as if a yearly 5* holiday is part of life's essentials, like eating and paying your bills.

That's very true.

I think of us as reasonably well off - mortgage paid and children left home - able to buy small things without thinking about it and checking the bank balance
Although likely to hit the "fuel poverty " definition ( Scotland) before anyone thinks 6 figure salary !

I know there are many people with double our household income , same age as us, who are really struggling

It's a lot to do with expectations - a lifetime of staying within budget , not needing "luxury" to feel fulfilled , happy with a warm dry house not a must have detached with big south facing garden sort of thing

Yanbu if you have to sit and listen to them moaning about their financial difficulties while spending fortunes on luxuries they can't afford. As long as they're not asking you for handouts just let them get on with it

It's not beyond their means if they can afford it. They may not be able to afford it for much longer.

They can't though.

Yanbu.

I have a family member who treats her credit card as a bank balance. I.e. if she has a credit limit of £3k then she believes that’s how much she has to spend.

I actually think some of the people who are going to struggle most are those who earn a decent salary but who live to their means. I don’t mean that they’re going to actually struggle but that they’re going to find it harder to get to grips with cutting their cloth accordingly.

If you’ve always been worse off then you’re used to the fact that you have to spend carefully.

But someone who has always had money has never had to actually think about what they spend, and suddenly the cost of living is going to reach them too and they’re in for a shock.

I wonder if some of those people will gain a better understanding of having to watch their money which they haven’t had to so far.

I've been wondering the same thing. Going into debt and living on credit has been normalised while advertising convinces people they need to spend extravagantly.