To think that some people have become accustomed to living well beyond their means

[LaDamaDeElche]

I was having a conversation with a close family member and, as everyone is doing at the moment, we were talking about the crazy cost of living now and they brought up another family member. Family member A said that Family Member B was worried as they and their partner are on a low wage and they don't know how they would cope and that they're always struggling as it is and saying they have no money. Family Member B goes on a very expensive holiday yearly, think 4/5* all inclusive for 10-14 days, which costs in the region of 5k and every celebration, like valentines, anniversary, birthday etc goes to a really high end restaurant, costing £££.

AIBU to think that this lifestyle isn't sustainable for most people, apart from the well off. If you're struggling to pay your bills it's madness to spend that kind of money when you could do something just as enjoyable and cheaper. Family member A though I was unreasonable to suggest maybe Family member B should cut back and do affordable things more in keeping with what they earn, because apparently everyone deserves luxury things, even if it puts you in debt, as life is for living. I agree everyone deserves to treat themselves, but not if it's going to put you in a ridiculous amount of debt. Before anyone says it's not my business, their lack of money is always being talked about to me and how hard things are etc, so I'm not just sticking my nose in where it's not wanted lol. This is definitely a thing in my family, the feeling of having to go on a really expensive holiday and fine dining on special occasions, whether you can afford it or not. Person B is certainly not in the minority on this. Family member A often goes on two/three 5* hols a year and I have no idea how (as they have a decent, but normal job) unless they have a side hustle playing the stock market or some other secret lucrative business 😂

We don't have much money and when we can't afford something and we say we can't do it, there's definitely a sense of irritation and "just put it on the credit card", "life is for living" etc etc.

I would have a different approach. If family member A talks about family member B just reassure them they have plenty of money. 'Oh I'm sure they'll be fine. They always seem to do alright', etc. Play dumb and deny they are broke. You can't be dragged into it that way.

I agree. DH & I have always lived within our means and, even though it's none of my business, sometimes I have just been so baffled by how some people afford so much! Then so often you find out it's because they put everything on credit and don't really save - I don't know how people don't find living like that really stressful!

Well I would imagine their five-star holidays helped tremendously towards any stress 🤣
honestly when all said and done and you end up towards the end of your life are you going to look back and wish you’d lined the pockets of more huge multinational corporations and saved money which is essentially worthless all you enjoyed yourself ?

It's interesting, because this is definitely like this in the U.K., but in other European many countries it's quite different. Where I live now, most people don't have an overdraft, unless they're a business and many people don't have credit cards, or if they do they will just have one with their own bank with a fairly modest limit. You don't see the 0% for six month deals and basically companies trying to entice people to get into debt. Mind you, here you get charged around 200€ per year just to have a bank account and a card, so god knows how much credit card and loan fees would be! That's probably why people don't.

*many other European countries

Where did I say I don't enjoy myself? I actually spend a lot of money on holidays as I prioritise them over other things! I'm off on my 4th holiday of the year next month - making up for lost time after lockdowns. But I don't go into debt for them, and if I couldn't afford 5* I'd go for a cheaper option and still go away.

I'm going to try that next time 😂

God, posters offering endless extenuating circumstances for poor financial planning are getting as tedious as blame threads.

Fact is that huge swathes of the country are poor at long term financial planning for various reasons. And that isn't limited to individuals - I specialise in reducing business overheads, and have rarely come across a budget I couldn't cut 10% from due to poor purchasing and resource use.

There's a lot in common - not negotiating, duplicating services, tying into expensive contracts.

I ran a hen do, and was able to pay back those who couldn't attend because of Covid - people were astounded. But it was simple - I knew drop outs were a strong possibility, so designed the plan about the likelihood of dropouts and refunds.

The answer in most cases is just bad planning, and a definition of "afford" that doesn't mean "afford after savings".

I agree op. I have friends who are complaining about being poor and being unable to cut back whilst enjoying a much better quality of life than I have. Friend 1 has 2-3 restaurant meals out each week, a cleaner, gardener, regular manicures and facials, 4 holidays per year and a DD who does several paid for activities. She doesn't see what she could possibly save on and I'm finding it increasingly challenging to stay quiet.

Friend 2 drinks and smokes and also doesn't know what to cut back on 😮

Oh thank goodness for that I was deeply worried about you for a moment there.

YANBU. If they can only afford these expensive holidays by putting them on credit cards then they can't afford them. Anyone who gets themselves into debt by buying luxuries that they cannot afford like holidays and fancy things, is making a lifestyle choice, to live a live that they cannot afford. I have no sympathy for them.

🙄

I think social media exacerbates a certain sense of entitlement to a lifestyle level, as the way people use it gives an impression that everyone has endless money. It creates the notion that its standard/the norm to afford a lot.

I put everything on my credit card including groceries and tube fares but I pay it off every month. my DH does the same. I don't even know the PIN to my debit card cos I never use it, its used for thing like mortgage, bills, direct debits and of course paying off credit card. I have also set it to deduct my balance from my credit card every month so I would never forget it to pay. And of course no fees or interest if you pay it back every month!

I thought everyone used it this way. Also in order to maintain credit score, you can't spend more than 25% of credit limit in any month. Once I had to spend over £1000 for dental (and still cover my daily expenses), and I had no idea what my debit card pin was so I used my credit card to pay for it (and then paid it back immediately using my phone app so my credit score wouldn't suffer).

We just booked the caledonian sleeper for two of us as well as 1 night at a 5 star hotel in Edinburgh (Sheraton). It will be paid off at the end of the month. I just need to remember to stop overpaying so much into mortgage so we can cover it without dipping into savings. I have an addiction to overpaying my mortgage; I can't stop paying as it gives me an endorphin rush. I have to transfer money into savings so that its difficult to access so that I don't overpay excessively.

I am not at all sure that this describes the average way to use a credit card in the UK

I don’t know my credit card pin and I never spend on it, but sadly I think we’re in the minority.

When i first got together with my DP he was in a fair amount of debt,and going into his overdraft was fairly common. I was horrified since I have never been into my overdraft ever.

But I think it’s true to say that the credit card companies do everything they can to keep you borrowing. I had a bit on my card a few years ago and after I’d paid it off, within a matter of days in fact, I had a letter telling me they’d increased my credit limit by £1000. Just why?

And yet there are plent of people who would view this as a green light to go on a further spending spree.

Nor that most of the U.K. population has an addiction to overpaying the mortgage - but suspect there is some kind of therapy you can do to help with that

I don’t know my credit card pin and I never spend on it, but sadly I think we’re in the minority

Why on earth is that sad? I use mine for everything, pay it off and get tons of rewards, loads of people do this.

Its not a bad idea for your credit limit to be a bit higher. For me all my spending is on the credit card but I cannot exceed 25% in 1 month. If you buy furniture or get dental, thats easily £1k-2k and all your ordinary expenses on top of it. Now that my credit limit over 2 credit cards is £7600, it would never go over. I think my DH's credit limit is over £10,000. When we book flights to Asia, thats easily £1000 and if we had another big expense, that could easily take us over. But of course that is a rare occasion, but I dont ever want to exceed the 25% threshold.

There are all these mortgage free mumsnetters, I presume they got that way through overpaying?

Jokes aside, I think it is mildly addictive. I overpay £50 daily and sometimes I throw in £10, £5, £17 and just watch the balance go down.

OP - if your family member is able to process information normally, they will work this out for themselves. There might be a couple of tight months when they’ve not adjusted, but most people will just go on a cheaper holiday next year, not go out in the same way, just not having as much. Yes, it would be easier to start the cut back earlier to build up savings, but don’t presume they are too stupid to work it out.

many people aren’t thinking of planning for the price hikes. It doesn’t mean when the price hikes kick in they won’t just cut their other spending at that point.

Having recently tried (unsuccessfully) to book a last minute holiday I'm astounded at the price of package holidays and fail to see how anyone but the highest earners will be able to afford them in future - and I say that as someone who is mortgage free, DH on decent salary plus pension from previous employment and DCs are adults (although one is living at home rent free to save for a house).
We chose a destination we wanted to go to (short haul) and decided that at £2200 for B&B for 2 of us it was not good value for money. We'd rather skip the holiday as we wouldn't get £2200+ worth of enjoyment from it. And we could afford it and are not usually tight with money.

People have different values and ideas of what is essential - always have done. I worked in financial services in a former life and people's 'essential ' spending often astounded me.

I have every sympathy for those who live in genuine poverty but very little for those who plead poverty whilst sporting the latest expensive hair do/ nails and driving around in a flash car funded on PCP.

I lolled at @RunningSME 's comment. And yours, about how baffled you are that everyone else spends so much and how you live within your means. And yes, your means include four or more 5* holidays a year but you're sensible because if you were poor you'd do them more cheaply. That was quite funny too.

Clearly relative A (parent?) is enabling relative B (sibling?). As long as A is prepared to continue to fund B's extravagant lifestyle then let it all wash over you. You're not going to change them so there's no point trying. Assuming you want to remain in contact with A then the "poor B" talk is something you just have to put up with. Grey rock.

If they are trying to get you involved then just say no, I/we can't do that. Don't debate it. Just no.

I’m not sure there’s anything wrong with over paying your mortgage either I mean once you’ve got the roof over your head secured your than in a position to be a little bit more daring with investments which inevitably leads to you doing really well in life money makes money it’s that simple but it’s hard to feel that you’re gambling on the stock market when you could potentially lose your home nobody is going to do that.