Aibu to think the nurse crisis could be solved if they had an incentive for people to become nurses

[Starsinyoureyes13]

A student nurse doesn't get paid to study and train on the wards. 37.5 hours and due to lack of nurses they are working alongside nurses wouldn't it be better to pay the trainee nurses and give nurses a payrise rather than NHS squandering money on £60 pound an hour agency staff?

@BirmaBrite absolutely, as Is getting good at reading between the lines of what they are actually telling you!

I have a first class degree in health and social care plus ward experience but no maths GCSE. So nursing is out for me. I get that you need to be literate in maths but they don’t even accept the maths equivalents. I was willing to do the functional level 2 as this is day to day maths applications, however I wasn’t willing to do a maths GCSE due to my dyscalculia. I can’t understand formulas etc, and that sort of maths is not used in nursing so it is a bit of red tape that I can’t get past.

I don't know about anyone else. But nursing absolutely is my vocation. I wouldn't want to do anything else what ever it paid!

@Toddlerteaplease That is really reassuring to hear. I don't want cancer care from a nurse who treats me as just a job!

@Toddlerteaplease I would really like you to be paid more and treated better, though.

@Tiredmum100 On Friday I had to tell a GP what to prescribe.

I don't have any specialist post registration qualifications, nor a degree, but this is something I do on a regular basis as a band 5 staff nurse, especially weekends and bank holidays, when the GP is often doing a bank shift in OOH's earning not much less for a shift than I do all month.

london.hee.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/practice_drug_calculations_0.pdf

its this sort of maths you need to be able to do. Some of these are simpler than others but it’s certainly more than reading a label.

Oh and it’s an NMC requirement during training that there’s a numeracy assessment. Most universities will require a 100% pass rate in that numeracy assessment so it would be unfair to recruit students without some numeracy ability because they would just be kicked off the degree course if they can’t pass.

I don't know if nurse training is the same, but with ODP drug calculation exam, you need to get 100% to pass.

When I was a student (20 years ago), pre degree, we had a numeracy assessment every year. 100% pass rate required. No calculator allowed and most of the questions were lengthy long division. No idea why as never had to do long division since!

At least students are allowed calculators now for their assessments and the questions are more practice based!

@XenoBitch yes, 100% needed at every university I’ve worked at.

100% with us. No calculators. But it isn't just the right dosage. As the nurse administering we have to check every detail and learn (unfortunately) that we can't always trust our drs. As a newly qualified that's scary.

I trained as a nurse in the 80s we were paid a salary about equivalent to the auxiliary nurses but we were counted as part of the staff not supernumerary and had a lot more responsibility even during the 3 years. So at least we qualified without debt.
I went on and completed a degree at night school funded completely by myself and eventually a Masters degree too. I am a highly qualified professional so I find it quite insulting that CornishGem1975 thinks it’s a vocation and why would anyone need a degree! I’ve done 3 years nursing school and 5 years at university.
Working in the NHS just now is brutal we have no staff but we are all trying our best to keep on going. I feel sorry for those who are at the beginning of their careers.

Oh the amount of times I’ve had to go back to the doctor to get a script amended because they’ve prescribed the wrong dose, or the drug is contraindicated for that patient is untrue.

It was nurses who wanted to move from the 'old fashioned' on the job, part of the workforce, paid type of training to a degree-based education.
At a stroke this excluded many who would make fantastic nurses and set up those who only wanted to do a nursing degree to get a bursary ( no longer available)
However, it soon became apparent that this isn't a satisfactory process; for the last 11 years the attrition rate during the course has been 24%. Then there's those who leave just after qualifying
There has been .iittle sucession plannnng across most trust, with a cohort acrooss the uk expecting to retire in next 2-5 years. Already about 40k vacancies despite govt playing fast and ,oose with stats, so do not get illafter 2024

Fees for healthcare courses like nursing used to be free, until 2016.

Also I had no idea that nurses had more power than the Tory government to dictate how future nurses should be trained 🙄.

They were not free. The bursary covered the fee. This was scrapped and nor fees have to be paid
The govt does not dictate the content of healthcare professionals training/ education, HEE does. Regulation, setting and monitoring of competence and professionalism is undertaken by the profession's regulatory body, the NMC for example
And yes, it was nurses who called for the change in the way their education was delivered, so you cansave your eye-rolling for another time

Nurse training used to require 3 A levels, maths and English absolutely required.
And shock, horro, for over 100 years, nurses nursed and could do drug calculationds without a calculator. They survived, their patients survived.
Nursing does not require a degree.
And tbh, you'd think based on the care friends and relatives have recieved at times, you'd think some had just walked off the street as they had no critical analysis, communication or maths skills

The bursary covered the fee, so it was free for the student nurses...🙄🙄🙄

@Nobetterthansheoughttobe I agree you have sumed up this whole thread and hit the nail on the head. It's nothing personal to a nurse at all but it is what it is.

A levels are harder than GCSEs.

The person I was responding to was upset about the idea that to train as a nurse, candidates need to already have a maths GCSE (or equivalent qualification). I was trying to point out that it's not unreasonable to set these requirements as a practical way of making sure these prospective nurses will be capable of the mathematical skills required.

The pre-training maths requirements you're talking about are even higher (A level maths… really? That seems excessive) so I'm not sure why you're responding to me, when I was saying that having some pre-training maths requirements is understandable.

Why? Most professionals pay a fee to remain on the Register of their professional body.

No bursary covered my fees yet my degree was free...

Wait, the bursary covered what?
My bursary was £200 a month. What fee was that covering? My bursary covered my car parking for my placement.

I was responding to someone else, who said that fees for nursing courses were not free before 2016, they were covered by a bursary. As far as I'm concerned they were "free" because I didn't have to pay them!

I trained pre 2016, so did not have to pay fees. The poor bastards who trained after me did. I got a bursary of just under £400 per month. And luckily could park at the local retail park for most of my placements, they've put cameras up now 😅.