Aibu to think the nurse crisis could be solved if they had an incentive for people to become nurses

[Starsinyoureyes13]

A student nurse doesn't get paid to study and train on the wards. 37.5 hours and due to lack of nurses they are working alongside nurses wouldn't it be better to pay the trainee nurses and give nurses a payrise rather than NHS squandering money on £60 pound an hour agency staff?

And ime the retention crisis is caused by lots of factors (low pay, high stress, short staffed, unappreciative and clueless management, pt abuse, ridiculous initiatives that pile on more work with no benefit to pt care, covid, retirement crisis that we've known about for 2 decades, brexit)

The shifts don't even hit the top 10.

Night shifts was the one and ONLY reason why I massively dropped my hours to part time days as there were no permenant days rota's in role at the time, and nights were making me ill after 10 years of awful rotating shift patterns. So they lost half a member of staff purely due to night shifts.

Shift work is definetly a massive factor in retention, and presuambly also in recruitment, as some people will have the sense to consider the long term impact of rotating shift patterns before commencing lengthy and expensive training.

So who is going to do the school run?? All these people you "know" elaborate please?

What happens when Dad is working 9 till 5 and mum 7am till 8pm. Both parents need to set off and travel. Please inform us of your friends experiences because you clearly know something we don't here.

@Ivegottherona who does the school run if both parents are 9-5?

Breakfast clubs that dads drop off at? After school clubs. Childminders.

But working shifts means you might only need it once a week instead of 5 x per week.

Who does school runs for non shift workers?

When both parents start at 9?

Admittedly first hit on Google and I've only skimmed it but it backs up what I said and doesn't seem to mention shifts.

I'm sure it's a factor for some but like I said, not anywhere near the top cause and a pretty poor reason imo.

nhsfunding.info/symptoms/10-effects-of-underfunding/staff-shortages-2/

That's not the question at hand. I was challenged you based upon YOUR comment regarding nurses. You know the original point of the thread. Well if your using a child minder it's not that free.

Once a week? Your clueless completely. Most nurses don't have set shifts and to use a child minder you wouldn't be able to just constantly change your childcare based upon your working rota published.

It's much easier to source childcare within social hours opposed to UNSOCIABLE hours... there's reasons why NHS pay more hourly rate because nobody would do it other wise.

Your attitude towards nursing stinks it's not even your own personal experience but your speaking with such confidence 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Listen to those who are saying there's good good reasons why we have jumped ships!

I don't have that "luxury" ask your friends! I work unsociable hours so I could only dream 🙃

Shift pattern is the biggest reason my team has 99% staff turnover in 1 year.
Nurses do community so so they can manage childcare more easily, 9 to5 daily and 1 weekend in 5. A separate team of evening service nurses covered 6pm til 10pm, this also suited childcare and most worked 3 or 4 evenings a week. Everyone happy and stayed in post for years. My team never changed staff in 15 years.
Management decided to do away with the evening staff and the same number of day staff must work 8am til 4pm, 10am til 6pm and 2pm til 10pm, with their shifts all mixed up one after another and on 10 days straight, oh and now do 1 weekend in 3.
Now the community service is in crisis as no one can have life work balance. Sickness has never been higher.
Management ignore workload tools showing red every day for dangerous staffing levels. Where has the money gone for all the staff that were done away with on evenings? no one will tell me.
1 single newly qualified nurse is expected to visit x15 people in the dark, on their own and covering a population of 70,000 over a geographical area 80 square miles.
They must triage calls, decide who and where they can go to and put the rest to the nightshift. Unhappy patients and miserable staff under pressure all the time.
NO one else to blame other than incompetant management level 8 and above.

Could I be cheeky and ask if this applies to OT as well?

No. Its not my personal experience that's my point

You asked a specific question about both having to leave before 9, so I answered

Most people I know work locally do dont have a commute or their ohs are also shift workers/self employed anf like I said our trust does allow set shifts, even set nights!

As I've also said, I'm not denying it's a problem for some it clearly is. Especially those who can't cope with shifts in the first place or who appear to prioritise their ohs job.

Clearly shift work isn't for them. But thats not really the same as it being entirely responsible for the massive retention and staffing crisis we are facing

Its much much bigger than that.

Not having to pay thousands of pounds for their training would definitely attract more nurses.

That would just cause shortages in other areas, there are simply not enough young people coming through as the rest of us age.

Nurses/AHP's are unlikely to ever pay back their fees on their wages plus they now get a 5k p.a. bonus.

How else did 3m EU citizens get work? most of it was skilled or semi skilled, this idea they were all picking cabbages is rubbish.

What used to be a nurse's job is now an HCA's job and nurses are doing junior doctor work. It's basically just a way to pay people less for the same work. (This is not accurate in it's entirety, but just as an illustration.)

So who does what the auxiliaries did?

Nursing is a 24/24 profession, as is the police, and other emergency/caring services
People know that when you start
Then once children arrive, parents don't want to do shifts/holidays etc, so childless staff are generally expected to cover

Well said.

I left nursing because management were not honouring my shift requests that I needed years ago, as my husband worked two days followed by two nights (12hr shifts), four on four off basis. They wouldn't help out make it easier so I decided enough was enough. It just wasn't going to work with a baby in the mix.

Incredibly inflexible as an employer compared to your regular 9 til 5 type jobs.

Due to personal circumstances outwith my control, there's no way I would return now.

@ClumpingBambooIsALie Judging from how patients are left without water and blankets, nobody. Not sure what doctors are doing, but everyone looks rushed off their feet and unable to deliver the basics of patient care.

I've had family living abroad where it was expected that family members came in to sort out things like blankets and water, so maybe that's the way it's going. I don't think that would be culturally acceptable here, though — many families don't have anyone available to look after a hospitalised family member.

@ClumpingBambooIsALie When I was a nurse on the wards, I found that family members of relatives from countries including France, Spain, Italy, etc would often visit to provide personal care. We made exceptions for some to visit before visiting times so they could assist with washing etc. I believe this is due to their culture and I have to say it certainly freed me up to focus on other things like medication, wound care, etc.

The culture in the UK is very different of course and relatives here will rarely get as involved. In the UK we expect a lot of nurses, doctors, HCAs, etc but prioritise other aspects of society over health care.

@Notplayingball

What did your ohs employer do to help?

Did they not offer to alter his shifts to fit round yours?!

I was left without water for 12 hours, even though I asked 2 nurses to refill my jug, as I was unable to walk and barely able to speak. A relative did come in and sort it out. Same for my elderly mother with blankets. Even if you have family to visit they can't be there all the time and patients do suffer. This restructuring of who does what is clearly not working, and it does seem that nurses are now too busy doing more important things than looking after patient dignity and comfort. Fair enough, but someone should be there to do it. Many people are really frightened to go into hospital now, because they are not sure they will actually be looked after.

We were expected to help out at lunch and dinner times with my Mum, this was just 6 years ago, in an NHS hospital.

The ward suggested we do this as they simply didn't have the time to feed everyone & it would give more time with folk who had no one.

Pleasure to help out and spend time with my Mum who was dying, didn't strike me as anything cultural at all.

Hmmmm as a nurse of 18 years I’m not sure you have a clue what we do.

i don’t spend my days fluffing pillows and holding hands of loved ones whilst making cups of tea! I spend my days doing drug calculations, assessing patients both mental and physical health, I have to complete reports and audits. I run my own clinics assessing and making plans of care for patients. I also read and interpret blood results, resuscitate patients (occasionally). Complete fluid calculations. This is not inclusive of all my roles but is a few. I also look after and manage families when a patient has passed away

So no it’s not a vocation - it’s not a hobby. It’s a crippling hard job that gets harder every single day. Nurses are dropping like flies. There are 70,000 empty jobs that need filling. Waiting lists are growing. Patients are not only surviving longer but are surviving when sicker which means we are working at a more senior level. I take home the same as what I took home when I qualified despite being two pay bands higher!

So we don’t need the older women who fancy a vocation we need people who are prepared to learn hard new skills and work there arses off. And we need to be paid properly for it!

In some cultures only medical care is provided. All personal care is undertaken by the family.