To think this can’t be normal?

[Mumofthreeandme]

Eldest DS is 6.5, starting year 2 next week.

He’s been especially challenging since about July, and steadily worse throughout the summer.

Today, he spat at DH twice (spitting = raspberry) which is a new thing he’s started up the last few weeks, often in response to being told off/to do something etc. The first time DH had warned him he’d lose TV, so when he did it again, he lost evening TV.

All evening, while his siblings have been in another room watching a film, he has wailed he is bored, nobody likes him, he has nothing to do, he has not let up. DH has the football on whilst cooking in the kitchen, and I have been upstairs having a sort out. He hasn’t tried to amuse himself at all.

He’s not always like this, but lately he has honestly been a nightmare - rude to us all, has an answer to everything, constantly answering back. I have tried talking to him about his feelings, I am consistent with consequences (as is DH as you can see in the screen time loss above), and I am not proud to say I have absolutely lost it at him more times than I can count on one hand during these holidays. I have taken to ignoring when he’s being really rude (example is earlier when he was taking forever to get his socks on - to look for school shoes for HIM, I might add) and I kept having to call him to hurry up. He came down, saying how mean I was, saying how he doesn’t care about me, etc etc. I completely blanked him and busied myself on my phone, and he then came over, said sorry and hugged me. So I’d like to say the ignoring worked, but it’s so hard to not respond when he’s being such a pain. And something similar happens again in the next hour so it’s not like he’s learning from it.

I'm glad you clarified when you said he spat at your husband that he was actually blowing raspberries as obviously it's not the same at all. I would call it normal for a 6 year old 'cheeky' behaviour. Like sticking their tongue out. He just sounds a bit miserable tbh. Obviously you must know that looking for school shoes for HIM is just a chore to him not a treat??

What are the other examples of bad behaviour and correlating consequence?

As tbh no TV for blowing a raspberry is way ott, especially being barred from joining siblings with a film

But if this is a last straw and there has been worse through the summer that might make sense

He loves shopping for himself (we give him a certain level of choice to be fair - no to the £50 Pokémon ones but yes to the £30 light up rocket ones that he loved)!

And yes raspberries, not a full spit of phlegm - hope it doesn’t progress to that though…! He is cheeky 10000 times a day. I call it rude tbh! Mimicking me back sarcastically when I’m telling him off or asking him to do something, would you call that cheeky? I call it bloody rude!

Sounds like very normal boundary testing to me . It’s so wearing trying to find a way to stamp it all out though

@nutellachurro see above - it’s virtually always rudeness/attitude/not stopping doing something when asked/not doing what he has been asked to do. Rudeness examples are typical “cheeky” stuff (think raspberries when being told off, “na-na-na-na” when being told off, telling us we are meanies when telling him off (tend to ignore that to be honest). The raspberries have irked us a lot over the summer as it’s not just playful, it’s to be defiant when being told off. He was doing it last week, DH said please stop spitting DS as I don’t like it, so DS came right up to DH’s face and blew one. I think that’s pretty bad behaviour!

It sounds like he needs to be back in the school routine.

He needs a quick consequence that happens immediately. Many MNers aren't fans but I think old Supernanny had it spot on with this kind of thing. (Immediate "time out"/"thinking time"/whatever you want to call it, followed by explaining why that's not acceptable behaviour & hugging it out).

You get to choose where your boundaries are and what you consider to be civilised behaviour, and you get to train your small human into that.

Delayed punishment won't work on a 6 year old, not watching TV is a problem for future-6yo, nothing to worry about now. But time out right now he can link to the unacceptable behaviour and understand that he doesn't want it now.

Could he have ADHD?

I hope being back at school helps! He pushes boundaries there but I’m pretty certain (hopeful) he wouldn’t blow a raspberry at his teacher.

Hiya, went went through similar- just wondering How much time have you spent one to one with him this summer? I went through similar with mine and once I dedicated 15-30 mins a day purposely seeking out excited to play with him- what would u like to do etc then the “ checkiness” reduced. Board games, Lego etc
he is looking for your attention and when you react big with the raspberries etc then he’s like bingo they give me loads of attention ( albeit negative) so il pull that one out again next time. My son was similar in the raspberries, tounge out, na na etc and certainly they can make a return again but I found actually going “ easy” on him and giving him loads of praise and attention ( when not doing the cheeky things ) then they reduced massively!!!
it’s a long summer for parents and we’re all at our limit at times so maybe he’s picking that up too xx hopefully it improves for you too

All evening, while his siblings have been in another room watching a film, he has wailed he is bored, nobody likes him, he has nothing to do, he has not let up. DH has the football on whilst cooking in the kitchen, and I have been upstairs having a sort out. He hasn’t tried to amuse himself at all.

Taking evening tv is the punishment, but it sounds like you gave him the second punishment of all ignoring him too, so of course he moaned, he’s 6! It sounds like you generally have the right approach, but in this situation I’d have taken some 1-1 time with him as he needs that even if he had misbehaved. He sounds like he’s trying to get your attention with these behaviours so I think quick punishment and ignoring his ‘meanie’ comments are right I’d but try and make sure you don’t just ignore him as a result. It’s tough when they are being so challenging though, hopefully school will calm him down a bit.

Thanks @Dontwakeme, he’s had lots of time as I haven’t worked all summer (work in a school). However a lot of this time yes has been with his two younger siblings too, but there were a few days when I sorted childcare for them and we had lovely days out. He was still pretty cheeky although it’s reached his peak the last week (well I hope, hopefully it won’t just get worse every day!). It’s a good suggestion though and maybe I’ll try and carve out half an hour to play with him specifically. He does get a lot of 1-2-1 attention in terms of board games (both DH and I have played a lot of snakes and ladders, Uno etc with him this summer) so I’m not sure it’ll help. You’re right in that he’s looking for attention, but it just never seems to be enough. He will be great most of the time when we’re engaging with him but as soon as it stops, or something doesn’t go his way, he reverts to the cheekiness and attitude. He’s just so irritable too, just now I was having a quick pee in the toilet and he needed to come in, as soon as he realised his response was “UGH COME ON!!”. It was literally 2 seconds he had to wait!

@Photosymphysis I don’t think he would care one jot about a time out right now. He does get sent to his room sometimes.

Thanks @BattenburgDonkey , that has happened a lot this summer - playing a card or board game with him when he’s not allowed to watch Tv. But this evening we genuinely had chores we had to get done before school starts tomorrow. Also, I do begrudge the games in place of TV that he’s lost as it feels like it’s negating the punishment and he’s being rewarded, albeit in a different way.

If this is attention seeking the one to one is satisfying his need.... but when it is over he is effectively 'abandoned'....
Can you give him a countdown towards the end of the one to one.... ie... ' another five minutes and then...' ... and have something structured for him to do immediately afterwards... help you by taking something upstairs... have some drawing set up for him to do by himself.... maybe connected with the one to one activity....
This extends his time with you.... still connected.... but entertaining himself and gradually weaning away.. does that make sense??
My question is whether he has been spending time with a particular friend?
Or watching something above his age on tv or online?

He does have a particularly influential friend @Bonbon21 , interesting that you’d say that! And in fact I know the raspberry in response to being told off is something the friend has done.

I think the friend has a big influence on him and how he acts, but DH thinks I’m over egging it, as he hasn’t seen the friend in 5 weeks since the first week of the summer holidays. And his behaviour has gotten worse, not better, since then. He is apparently much better behaved at school when the friend isn’t there though.

Is he the eldest? Does he have anyone to play with?

He sounds an awful lot like my ds6.
I have no advice I'm following for it, but please rest assured it's not just yours.

Honestly he just sounds like a kid.

They are cheeky, you tell them off. Repeat.

I have been worrying about that @carefullycourageous , is this just it now until he’s an adult?! Is it why parents of older kids say how easy it is when they’re babies and toddlers?!!

@Theyellowshorts yes the eldest. He has his siblings, but the next youngest is 3 years younger and while they do play, it’s not quite on his wave length. When they do it’s mainly silly games, running around being boisterous.

@GoneWithTheWine1 sorry it’s yours too! How do you respond?

He sounds pretty normal tbh.

Hardwork and a pain in the arse but they all are sometimes!

I would try smaller and more immediate consequences though. Losing a whole evening of TV for something he did much earlier in the day is too much for a 6 year old. It doesn't work.

Do you make sure to praise him more than you tell him off, no matter how bad his behaviour is overall? It's easy to fall into a very negative relationship when they're like this. You have the power to stop that, he doesn't. Look at how much you praise and reward the good stuff Vs punishing and complaining about the bad stuff.

This evening I would have offered him the chance to join you or DH with what you were doing. Not rewarding him with games, but not making him spend hours by himself while his sibling watched TV together in another room. That kind of isolation is no good for a 6 year old.

I'm asking about having anyone to play with cos my 7YO has been similar this summer. He is the youngest. His brother is 9 and autistic, so likes to be by himself a lot and is generally happy to entertain himself. 7YO is more sociable and enjoys playing with others. He's not played out as much this summer (one of the kids in the street moved) and I think he's really missed it.

@NuffSaidSam he was allowed to sit in the kitchen with DH watching the football (he doesn’t like football though) or playing with toys, or helping me with clothes organising, not very exciting! So he wasn’t expected to sit alone as it were. I understand what you mean with immediate consequences, I would struggle to come up with them though. We were in the car when he did the raspberry which lost him TV.

@Theyellowshorts yeah DS is sociable, loves to make friends at the play ground. We have had lots of play dates this summer and he’s usually pretty well behaved during them, although still full of attitude/shows off.

Sounds like my nearly 7 year old tbh, rude & pushing boundaries. But can also be a sweetheart. He’s also the oldest of 3, I don’t worry really just point out the behaviour x100.
I really don’t understand how some parents don’t shout though 😆

I understand what you mean with immediate consequences, I would struggle to come up with them though. We were in the car when he did the raspberry which lost him TV.

The consequence should have been as soon as you got out of the car at your destination.

Natural consequences are best, but time out/thinking time is a good compromise. Although tbh in the case of blowing a raspberry I would have just completely ignored it. The natural consequence of contributing a raspberry to a conversation is that no-one listens to what you have to say.

Sounds similar in that case @03X ! Is it every day x 100h? That’s how it is here. Can’t wait for school tomorrow! I usually love the holidays even though they’re not always easy, this has been the first one I’ve found him so challenging.