To think this can’t be normal?

[Mumofthreeandme]

Eldest DS is 6.5, starting year 2 next week.

He’s been especially challenging since about July, and steadily worse throughout the summer.

Today, he spat at DH twice (spitting = raspberry) which is a new thing he’s started up the last few weeks, often in response to being told off/to do something etc. The first time DH had warned him he’d lose TV, so when he did it again, he lost evening TV.

All evening, while his siblings have been in another room watching a film, he has wailed he is bored, nobody likes him, he has nothing to do, he has not let up. DH has the football on whilst cooking in the kitchen, and I have been upstairs having a sort out. He hasn’t tried to amuse himself at all.

He’s not always like this, but lately he has honestly been a nightmare - rude to us all, has an answer to everything, constantly answering back. I have tried talking to him about his feelings, I am consistent with consequences (as is DH as you can see in the screen time loss above), and I am not proud to say I have absolutely lost it at him more times than I can count on one hand during these holidays. I have taken to ignoring when he’s being really rude (example is earlier when he was taking forever to get his socks on - to look for school shoes for HIM, I might add) and I kept having to call him to hurry up. He came down, saying how mean I was, saying how he doesn’t care about me, etc etc. I completely blanked him and busied myself on my phone, and he then came over, said sorry and hugged me. So I’d like to say the ignoring worked, but it’s so hard to not respond when he’s being such a pain. And something similar happens again in the next hour so it’s not like he’s learning from it.

@NuffSaidSam I like that insight into the raspberry blowing! DH really hates it, I don’t like it either to be fair but it’s something that grates on him mostly. And now that we’ve started giving consequences it feels inconsistent to ignore. But we are also definitely not always consistent, it’s impossible! Why is parenting so hard 😣it’s true what they say about babies being the easiest. DS was the easiest baby of my 3 despite being the first!

He gives me attitude daily, has started to shout at me & his brothers too, constantly picks his nose/messes with his face (I tell him not to constantly). He doesn’t listen, I have to repeat things all the time. When I say no, he’ll always be the one to ask again several times (my 5 year old accepts it straight away). His teacher has had to pull me several times about his listening (lack of).

On the other hand he’s very sensitive & sweet, loving & gentle. Intelligent with an amazing memory & generally empathetic towards people. Can be really helpful when required. He’s very active & fit.

Ive thought ADHD a few times, but I know it’s also just normal child behaviour. I do think school helps, lockdown (excessive screen time) does not. He needs to burn his energy I think!

He is probably missing his normal routine and stimulation from friends his own age. Hope things improve when you settle back into term time routine.

I read this and wondered how my 5 year old was living in your house as well as mine. It's not a great stage I've got to say. Plus it blindsides you as you think the terrible 2's and threenager years are over and it's all going to be get easier and then bang ! I don't have any useful advice but can offer solidarity

My 4 yr old is so similar. Over the last week what's worked is as soon as he does something I start by explaining why he shouldn't then if it happens again a time out (just for everyone to stay calm) and I remove 1 toy (thats hes bene playing with). Then the aim of the day is not to do that behaviour again- if a success the toy comes back by the evening. Each night we do a recap I ask him if there's anything he thinks he shouldn't have done and he'll say 1 thing and then we do a huge list of everything good and lots of cuddles etc. I'm making sure he has 1 on 1 time (putting his brother to bed earlier). Its made a big difference and I think I've realised in the midst of a busy life, with lots going on he's just looking to carve out some attention for himself.

God knows if I'm doing it right or wrong but seems to be helping for now.

Definitely does wear you down though so I feel for you.

@03X they sound identical!!! Very very wearing. I have also wondered about ADHD to be honest, mainly because of the behaviour in school as well. Like you’re though mine can be very helpful, kind and empathetic. Without fail if one of his siblings is upset about something, he tries to make them laugh or offers a cuddle.

@pogostickplastique yes it’s confusing! I found my DS to mostly be a lovely child ages 4-5 after a tricky threenager phase. Feels like we’re back to three years ago again!

Don’t be surprised ( sorry to say) if the next few days are worse As he settle into school. My son came home first day WILD with all these new comments/ actions/ etc that he picked up from his classmates who also were practicing their cheekiness over the summer 😂 next few days the same, new levels of cheek/ phrases IGNORE.
my view and mantra is you’ll see more of what you give attention to so give all your attention to the positives despite how hard they are to find each day! So hard when certain behaviours trigger a reaction in you though, my son blew a raspberry in my face in the summer and I went beserk so I know exactly how you feel and it’s not easy ignoring etc!

Yep @Dontwakeme , agree. My DS was such a lovely little boy the year of lockdown - he’d only been in the nursery class when everything shut down so hadn’t really picked up too many bad habits from peers, and although he had the usual 4 year old behaviours, we got on very well that year. Year 1 was the worst for picking up bad behaviours.

I’d be interested to hear if your DS has blown raspberries at you again since you went beserk? DH went pretty beserk over a raspberry in his face last week, but yet it
continues…he just doesn’t seem to learn.

I think 6 is v young still - compared to his siblings he might appear old and able to do as told but if he was the youngest more allowance would be made.
Is he anxious about all day 5 days a week stuck in school (I would be at age 6) and of course younger siblings don't have that thrust on them so he could be jealous about this.

Blowing a raspberry is not 'spitting' - how utterly dramatic and ridiculous. Fair enough if you don't like it and want him to stop, but spitting is an act of aggression and blowing a raspberry is cheeky at worst.

I'm going to be blunt here, sorry but:
-stop blaming other children for your son's behaviour
-stop overreacting about blowing a raspberry, they are just a silly thing
-set some sensible/realistic expectations for your child, if you think it is COVID then give the kid a break
-your consequences sound ridiculous and make more work for you

I think you need to go back to basics:
-Administer 7x more praise than criticism
-ignoring things is powerful
-pick your battles wisely
-remember he is six

He is young. Completely ignore the raspberries. Not a flicker. After about 10 times of this he will give up. Ignoring bad behaviour works so much better. He is annoyed when he does and and wants to get a rise out of you as its the only power he has. Take away the response and it is a pointless thing to do.

@Mumofthreeandme I caught myself on and was disappointed in myself that I gave such a big reaction. I apologised to him for shouting and explained what I should have done instead-take a deep breath or move away.
I went back to ignoring the “ cheeky” behaviour and praising the good and generally that works well and those behaviours lessen- can’t recall the last raspberry really. As everyone here says give him a break, lash on the praise big time and hopefully you’ll see a difference! Kids have so little power to change their circumstances that they do what they can to get a reaction / change ... with regarding consequences I try to only give a consequence that’s related to the actual behaviour and also one that’s immediate.if I do use a consequence then it’s 1warning and if the behaviour happens again then swoop in calmly and apply consequence-no begging for one more chance etc.
Again maybe against popular opinion here I don’t do time outs or naughty step etc as I don’t feel they suit my son- this makes him feel excluded and shamed and I dont want to teach him via shame or fear of being excluded or that I’m not there for him when he’s overwhelmed. How does your son react to time outs? How is he during/after? Some kids prefer that time away to calm, my friends son is exactly that he takes himself off and doesn’t like being physically close to someone of overwhelmed.
I still remember the negative feelings of being sent to my room and not allowed out while siblings played etc- if it did change my behaviour it was only out of fear of not wanting to be isolated again. There was definitely no apology / validation of feelings etc by my mother and I grew up thinking her love for me was conditional on my behaviour being a/b/c etc .
Not easy being a parent for sure and we are all trying to do our best but so glad we have much more parenting resources open for us now via social media, parenting gurus etc compared to our parents generation. I 100% don’t get it right most of the time for sure- everyday is a learning day as they say!

You’ve had some good advice here already.

A few other things that may help

1. ignore the unimportant stuff. That might be the raspberries (Which aren’t spitting). It might not be, though, if it’s something you really aren’t comfortable with. For eg, I hate the loser dance. So my dc know they just don’t do it. It’s ok for you to have boundaries too. However, instead of ‘going berserk’ which does nothing productive, talk to him in a calm moment about why you dislike it so much, and come up with things he could do instead to express his frustration. And be prepared to do it over and over again. But also know that it will give you something to say in the moment ‘urgh you’re feeling really frustrated about this. I can see you’re cross. But remember mummy explained why we don’t blow raspberries. Thank you for respecting that. What can you do instead to show how you’re feeling?’
2. Which then leads to naming feelings. All the time. He’s 6. He is showing you how he feels in the only way he knows how. (And the way that’s being modelled to him if what he’s getting back is people going berserk, ignoring him and giving him massive long reaching consequences.) You will be amazed at how quickly children calm down when a parent is ready to be with them in how they’re feeling. That doesn’t mean giving in to them, it doesn’t mean not having consequences but it’s far more effective at changing behaviour long term. So for example with the shoes (& we had the exact convo in our house!) ‘Getting school shoes is so boring huh? You’ve got loads of things you’d rather be doing. Me too! But you can’t go to school in your socks! (Humour helps so much too). We have to go and get the school shoes. I know you don’t want to. I can see you’re not looking forward to it but let’s go now & what will we look forward to after it’s done?’ And plan a nice thing for after (a game, the park by the shoe shop, whatever).
3. the inner chimp work book for children. Will help all of you have the language to talk about out of control moments.

good luck!

Thanks for all the advice, I fully intended to follow it (we even already have the hidden chimp book).

Then when it was time to go to the playground, DS asked if he could wear his new school shoes. I said, nicely, no, because we don’t want them to get scuffed before he starts this afternoon (staggered start). His response was to kick the side of the sofa quite hard. Another “new” thing the last few months. I grabbed his arms, shook him, and screamed no at him. Obviously now I feel so ashamed but this sort of thing is happening more and more. I don’t know what to do.

Ah @Mumofthreeandme It is so so hard when we get caught up in these spirals of behaviour and everything feels unfixable - we end up losing control.

However, you know that being physical with your child a) isn’t appropriate and b) isn’t going to result in the behaviours you want long term.

Deep breaths, reset and spend some time with your dh discussing strategies for approaching things. Rehearse it, talk it through and whatever approach you decide on, stick with it.

Time for a different approach because it sounds like the situation is miserable for all of you right now.

I feel like this is going to sound really harsh but as adults we model the behaviour we want to see.

The behaviours you describe as not liking in your ds are the behaviours you and your dh are modelling to him. Eg he gets frustrated and kicks the sofa, you get frustrated and lash out physically. He gets frustrated and blows a raspberry…which frustrates your dh so he does the verbal equivalent of blowing a raspberry back (shouting).

You and your dh have the power to change things. It really is in your control. You’re the adults and you can come up with a plan which makes things better for all of you.

Did you see prince Louis ? 🤣

They all push boundaries, keep doing what you're doing and stay consistent. Tbh I'd ignore the raspberry blowing, no attention and he'll stop hopefully. Ds was full on spitting at 3.5, it was a bloody nightmare, his older cousin taught him 🙄

Oh dear. You need to sort yourself put instead of worrying about your son.

1. I'd have said yes to shoes - who cares of they get scuffed a few hours early? You are very controlling.

2. Shaking/grabbing/screaming - not ok at all.

As for 'I don't know what to do' - stop shouting shaking and grabbing.

Then when it was time to go to the playground, DS asked if he could wear his new school shoes. I said, nicely, no, because we don’t want them to get scuffed before he starts this afternoon (staggered start). His response was to kick the side of the sofa quite hard. Another “new” thing the last few months. I grabbed his arms, shook him, and screamed no at him. Obviously now I feel so ashamed but this sort of thing is happening more and more. I don’t know what to do.

This goes quite a long way to explaining his behaviour, even if you are at 'the end of your tether' that's quite an overreaction to him kicking an inanimate object. It sounds like you all have displayed behaviours that have got you stuck in a spiral of anger towards each other.

Angry or frustrated Outbursts from a child are never solved with confrontation from an adult, it just creates more of the same (as you already know) Whilst he is unable to process his feelings the same cannot be said about you and his dad. You both need to take a step back and reassess how you are parenting him.

You need to be firm with him and you can do that by getting down to his level, speaking quietly and making sure he knows that he is not to do [that] when it's something that cannot be overlooked. The first time tell him not to do it and why, the second time a warning, after that a consequence. After the first and second times say what you need to then carry on with what you are doing and engage/change the subject to distract.

Other 'silly' 6 yr old child behaviour can be overlooked. It's not necessary to have a punishment system for every little thing they do and sometimes the best policy can be to ignore. Just walk away and do something else.

Try to make some time for him one on one. One of you take him out while the other has the younger two. Tag teaming is a very useful tool.

And, perhaps obviously, don't forget to praise the good bits. It can be really hard to do this when everyone is tired and frustrated but it will pay dividends in the end.

I also think if you're at the grabbing, shaking, shouting phase at just 6yo and a kick at a sofa, what's left when the child does something that is actually serious?

He sounds bored and in need of being back in routine or with friends. I have to say i think it sounds like a pretty severe punishment...other kids watching a film and he is left out. And no board games either as that means the punishment is not severe enough?

Too strict for a 6 year old ..is my own opinion.

Id not sweat the small stuff this much. If he is 6 and has two little siblings i imagine you are tired ! And he has lost a lot of attention in recent years

It just sounds normal out of sorts kid without enough stimulation to ne

Some of your expectations sound very high. Ie. Expecting him to entertain himself nicely while his siblings watch a film and he is being punished. I am not sure my 10 year old would do that with good grace.

I think its easy to expect too much of an oldest child i have done it myself. Six is still very little though (in many countries nit even old enough for school)

You also feel annoyed he didnt appreciate you were hurrying him for shoes...no child gives much care for shoe shopping! Just a tedious adult led day out for them.

The "nobody likes him" part breaks my heart a bit.

I also think kicking the sofa is a minor minor behaviour from a six year old disappointed and not understanding why he cant wear the new shoes he made such a fuss about. He will be nervous and unsure going back to school as well.. my own kids were totally our of sorts and very irritable by the last week of the holiday.

Did you grow up in a very strict home ?

So much angst and drama about a raspberry. You need to pick your battles because that really isn't a hill to die on and the punishment seems excessive for something that all kids do. My DS was like this at a similar age. He's now a sensible caring thoughtful young man at university.