… to think that “Miss” and “Sir” for teachers is not equivalent?

[wallpoppy]

Just that really. Children say “miss” for female teachers of any age or seniority, but it’s “sir” for male teachers. As titles outside of school they aren’t remotely equivalent. It should Miss, mrs. or ms. surname for women and Mr. surname for men.

Totally agree OP.

It’s either everyone is known as Mr/Miss/Mrs/ or

Sir or Madam/Ma’am

Read my response really really slowly: there are more important issues, in education, than how a teacher is addressed. Providing there is respect, why on earth does it matter that Miss does not equate with Sir? How does this detract from teaching students, which is the crux of education. As I said, this is more about status, which is in the mind of the individual teacher. We have seen some teachers, myself as an ex teacher included, that how we are addressed is trivial.

Really ?????????????????????????????????????????????????

I absolutely agree OP and have raised it at dc school. Seeing as they asked us to bring them any instances of casual sexism, and how important it is to challenge them.... I didn't get an answer.

You have raised this as casual sexism? Deary me. No wonder you didn't get an answer.

Seriously, why? Why on earth don't you say "Ms Smith will do.."?

I taught for 40 years and never came across this. It's just weird.

Sad to see so many educators take the ‘they’re word, you shouldn’t read anything into it’ line. Language isn’t neutral. Not to mention seeing their students as an undifferentiated, unthinking mass.

And I don’t get the bigger things to worry about argument. I lose count of all the places that have changed name since I was a child, not to mention changes in everyday vocabulary around things like gender roles and disability. The new terms are unfamiliar at first, but very quickly they bed in and the old ones seem quaint (or offensive). The way some posters are talking, you’d think that uncontacted peoples in the Amazon are using sir and miss to address teachers. Rather than these being like so many other everyday English words that have had their day and could very easily make way for something new.

I quite like being called Miss it makes me feel young again. I would hate to be called Madam as it would make me feel.old or make me sound like I worked somewhere of disepute l.

I have already explained this in a follow-up post.

I mean, it is a spot on example of casual sexism, so I'm not sure why you felt the need for the patronising "deary me".

If you are in favour of sexist language in schools just say so. No need to insult women who stand up for equal treatment of women.

This. Some teachers on this thread are doing their pupils a great disservice. I know that when I was at school, I was aware that "Miss" is less respectful that "Sir", and was pretty appalled that friends could address their teachers that way in their schools. I don't believe that children today are any less aware of sexism, or able to think for themselves.

I also think that teachers who deny the significance of linguistic choices are pretty concerning. I can't think of a subject in which the choice of language is completely neutral and without significance or nuance. Fair enough if some teachers don't mind it, but don't try to claim that "Miss" and "Sir" are without subtext in the wider context of society and language.

but don't try to claim that "Miss" and "Sir" are without subtext in the wider context of society and language.

Why not, if we believe it to be true?

I had to Google. This has bothered me a bit and now I know.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27407789.amp

I think that article sums it up pretty well, and certainly underscores the notion that the distinction linguistically devalues women teachers.

It's interesting that they use a screen shot from The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie. If memory serves, she corrects a new pupil who addresses her as "Miss" with the instruction to say "Miss Brodie." In the film, it struck me as something of a class thing, an implication that "Miss" by itself was for inferior educational institutions.

The only time I would have "done my pupils a great disservice", is if I had neglected their needs. Old school teachers, such as myself, put the students' needs first. Now, as this thread shows, it's all about the teacher's status and glory. To say this debate is part of wider sociological issues, is laughable.

Anybody, who precedes isms with casual, is looking for a problem.

I don't think so, I think there is a problem and I'm seeing it. Plenty of evidence that sexism is alive and well in our society (gender pay gap, precedence of sexual assault, glass ceilings in the workplace to name a few).

Providing there is respect, why on earth does it matter that Miss does not equate with Sir?

Non sequitur. If they do not equate it is not respectful.

You seem very invested in insulting those who disagree with the status quo though. Why is that?

So you cannot disagree without being told you are being insulting? It's also not a non sequitur.