… to think that “Miss” and “Sir” for teachers is not equivalent?

[wallpoppy]

Just that really. Children say “miss” for female teachers of any age or seniority, but it’s “sir” for male teachers. As titles outside of school they aren’t remotely equivalent. It should Miss, mrs. or ms. surname for women and Mr. surname for men.

I remember being in y7 and being greeted by our new English teacher giving a 5 minute rant that he was Mr Smith, not Sir as he'd never been knighted. A waste of time as he was inevitably called sir.

I've experienced schools in various parts of the UK and the only one that didn't default to Miss/ Sir was a first names school. It was a little strange to adjust to for a short while. Then it took a little while to adjust back to "Miss" again. The one glitch with first names was if a pupil would say something like "I'm sorry I was late, I was talking to James" and it wasn't immediately clear if they were talking about a teacher or pupil.

Pupils forget names (hence the frequent "mum" slip) and what really matters is the tone of respect. "Sir" said sarcastically would be far less respectful than "Miss" said normally. It's usually used in direct conversation rather than 3rd party where full names would sound stilted and excessively formal. There isn't a natural UK English substitute term.

My finest hour was a new school year and my former pupil forgot my name and called me the "Bright cardigan lady" to their next teacher. It worked, she hadn't met me properly previously but the description identified me sucessfully. It was intended kindly enough and the colleague and I both found it amusing.

Agreed, absolutely. The children don't notice or care.

My son attends Educate Together secondary in Ireland all teachers are addressed by their first name.
Most students have come from primary school with similar practice it has no detrimental impact on the kids respecting teachers.

Children learn respect by seeing respect modeled around them a title isn't going to change that!

At our local Academy the kids say Siri and Ma'am

Yes this also bothers me!!
But also in general society - why should women be determined by their marital ‘status’ in their “Mrs/Miss/Ms”?? WTAF??! Men only have “Mr”!
So why in school do the male teachers get this same more escalated title of “Sir” which is in line with the old gentry? (Maybe not explaining myself too well here but hopefully you’ll get my point!) 🤣

Siri!!
in actual fact they probably do!! 😫🤣

I was always called Miss.

What's wrong with that? Something shameful about being a woman? I don't get it.

The kids respected me and sometimes shortened my whole teaching name to 'Miss'. I quite liked it,a bit more informal..

How sad if we have to feel there's something wrong with that and it needs changing.

Miss and Master are equivalents. I suppose though, that Master might sound a bit...cultish. Or pervy.

Sir is so ridiculously deferential though compared to the girlish Miss.

My children never thought any less of a teacher because they were referred to as miss. I’ve found them to be far more broad minded and accepting of all people regardless of title or gender. Sounds like you’re concerned about something that young people don’t give any consideration to.

I had an interview for a teaching post at a (state) school where female teachers were (and apparently still are) called ma'am. I was 22 and it properly put me off the place. Fortunately I had another interview the next day, before I heard back from the first one, and was offered the job at the end of the interview. So when the first one got back to me I was able to turn down their offer..

At my last school (where I taught for 20 years) we were all, including the head, called by our first names. Special schools are nice for that.

Surely the feminine equivalent of "Sir" is "Dame"?

The queen is addressed ma’am, rhymes with jam.

Oh fir goodness sake! Some people will find anything to moan about and make something minor into a big meal!

Mine also at the same age! Did you go to school in Canada by any chance?

I certainly did when I was at school! I thought it was wrong then. But having no good equivalent kept quiet or used their name. Luckily my school wasn't big on miss and sir even back in the 80s so I wasn't totally weird.

I can remember at school one male teacher wanting to be referred to as Sir. I was a cheeky and bolshy teenager and asked him when he had been mentioned in the Queen's Honours List and what for. It didn't go down well but I never called him Sir. He was Mr whatever it was always with me

I work in a large secondary school. The students simply don’t know the name of every single staff member so wouldn’t know to call me ‘Ms Teapot’ when walking down the corridor. I’m quite happy for them to say ‘Miss’ rather than ‘Oi you’. Similarly I don’t know every staff name so will also say ‘Sir’ or ‘Miss’ when trying to catch someone’s attention. I do agree that Sir or Madam would be better.

In classes or if they know the name, the students use ‘Mr X’ or ‘Mrs Y’.

I hate being referred to as Madame Feck, but then again I live in a French speaking country and that is generally how they refer to adult workers.

I would much prefer Miss. However, the kids all address us by our first names, and this works absolutely fine.

If they just called every teacher Professor or something similar it would make so much more sense. Miss denotes an inferior status to Sir. Sir, and therefore men, is automatically seen as more senior, powerful, and authoritative and these associations carry over into later life to the detriment of women.

This is such a non issue, honestly… in all the years I’ve been called ‘miss’ I’ve never even thought about it. My students are polite and respectful and that is what matters

Madam would be a weird alternative, I don't often hear it but it makes me think of when little girls get stroppy and are called 'a little madam'
Or the women who run brothels.
Neither are things I would really want to be called.

My child's primary did this. First names all round. It was lovely.

I went to an International school where teachers got called all sorts of things, depending on what was normal in DC last school.

American teachers thought being addressed as Miss was very rude, and the English ones hated being called "M'am".

This with a million bells on!