… to think that “Miss” and “Sir” for teachers is not equivalent?

[wallpoppy]

Just that really. Children say “miss” for female teachers of any age or seniority, but it’s “sir” for male teachers. As titles outside of school they aren’t remotely equivalent. It should Miss, mrs. or ms. surname for women and Mr. surname for men.

Ma’am to rhyme with jam is only for the Queen (or Americans!) It’s Ma’am to rhyme with calm for female military officers 😊

This !!!

A school I know the teachers are Sir or Ma (to rhyme with Jar)

We had a teacher who inherited his father's knighthood while we were there so when all the other male teachers were Sir or Mr Surname this one who was changed to Sir FirstName. It clearly made him very uncomfortable.

In my children's schools it has always been muinteoir(the Irish for teacher) first name so Muinteoir Máire or Muinteoir Pól for example. I think the whole concept of Mr, Sir, Miss etc in schools is outdated to be honest.

But is that a northern caaam or a southern cahhm?😁

I've only ever known Mr Jones or Mrs Smith, through my schooling, my kids schooling and my husband is a teacher. miss / Sir just isn't a thing

Ooh, the latter, definitely!

It's bothered me too. I suppose an equivalent (other than Mr x / Mrs y) would be ma'am

i did supply and many of the females in schools HATE being called madame or ma'am and insist on mrs/miss

We need a geographical poll now. I've been in 5 schools. More, counting the ones I attended, and it's only ever been sir or miss, unless talking about a teacher.

I absolutely loathe this, and I can't believe it's as broadly accepted as it is. At my school, all teachers were addressed by their appropriate title and surname. It's really not bloody hard. We even managed to remember which teachers had doctorates and acknowledge that.

We need a geographical poll now. I've been in 5 schools. More, counting the ones I attended, and it's only ever been sir or miss, unless talking about a teacher.

I've worked in schools in London/SE and in NW England. The divide between how teachers were addressed was definitely based on type of school rather than geographical location.

I get called all sorts: miss, mum, sir, that cunt over there i hate 'er.

This made me laugh! Not the actual fact it happens, but the way you wrote it!

I was at an open night earlier in the year and I found this odd as a very experienced head of department was being called 'miss' by a new young PE teacher who she called 'sir'. I thought sir sounded way more respectful.

Yes, after all ingrained misogyny that signals to the next generation of young women that no matter how hard they try they’ll never be equivalent to men doesn’t matter does it? There’s no way that everyday sexism has any impact in female attainment or empowerment, especially now that sexism and the gender pay gap don’t exist any more.

Oh no, actually that’s bollocks isn’t It! Silly me!

dinner lord 😂

Isn't the Miss more of a short form for 'olden days' Mistress? As opposed to an unmarried lady?

It's not being called sir that gets them respect, it's the penis.

My surname is really long and hard to pronounce so I have no problem being called 'miss'. To the kids, it's just what they call a female teacher.

What's more annoying is when you sign off an email Ms and parents still insist on replying "dear Mrs Orange..."

Can't believe people are getting worked up about this! Talk about looking for issues where they don't exist...🥱

YADNBU Totally agree and I've moaned to DH about this too because they're not equivalent. Wasn't ever a thing when I was at school on the south coast - teachers were only ever referred to as Title Surname e.g. Mrs Brown, Mr Smith, Miss Jones etc, both when speaking to them in classes and when talking about them.

Now living in NE England and the sir/miss thing seems to be standard at the primary and secondary my kids attend for all the staff - teachers, TAs, dinner ladies etc. Consequently I've never got any idea who my kids are talking about - I get accounts of their day "sir said this then miss did that and then sir came in and miss told him..." and I have to get them to explain who they mean! The primary staff do it too so I assume the kids just copy them, and the male head refers to all the female parents as Miss as well so I don't see it changing anytime soon.

👏👏👏 this!

Yep.

Personally, Miss is fine, I'm also fine with Miss X
And would be fine with just my first name, but I share a name with several students so its much easier to be Miss.
I don't care that the men sometimes get called Sir, at my school they are more often Mr X anyway, one geography teacher gets called Captain Birdseye or sometimes just Cap or Cap'n
I am just happy when I am not being called a bitch or a skank for giving homework at this point.

I think Ma'am would feel weird, and the students wouldn't say it, Miss is good- I know who they are talking to and its polite enough without being too formal

Probably more use than a time lord.

This annoys me too. I learn the names of the children I teach and don't think it's unreasonable for them to learn my name. I don't answer to just Miss and explain to them at the start of the year that I wouldn't expect them to answer to being called Boy or Girl in place of their name. They can call me Mrs SE13, Ms SE13 or if that's really too hard then I'll answer to Ma'am as being a broad equivalent to Sir. I really object when my colleagues - who I see every day try to call me Miss instead of Mrs SE13 or my first name. It's generally the male teachers who do this and I've asked them to please use my name or my 'school name' but not the low-status Miss. It's only ever been a good-natured conversation but as our SLT are very keen to be seen to be fully inclusive of everything and to get things right for people, I've pointed out that it's reasonable to expect them to make an effort to use my preferred name. The headteacher has made much more of an effort, the exec head is still a work in progress.

I've taught in schools where everyone goes by their first name and that feels much more honest. It was also noticeable that there was none of the Miss or Sir laziness from adults or children...