To not find Miss/Mrs/Ms relevant today

[helenabonhamfarter]

In the modern world why do I have to specify if I'm married or not.
Why is it relevant?
Every website wants my title
Even the dry cleaner when I drop my washing off asks "is that Miss or Mrs?"

Why is first name and last name insufficient?
I do have a professional title which I can wheel out which is gender neutral and do so if I want to get arsey but seriously why are we doing this???

But why is it relevant to have Miss/Mrs/Ms for women but just Mr for men. Why is it relevant to define a woman's marital status but not a man's?

Oh, but think of the poor men, who don't even have a socially acceptable way to flash their marital status around!!

We should probably go back to Master and Mister, and not let the single men be Misters until they've tied the knot.

Oh, OK: maybe give them a marital-status-neutral equivalent of Ms ... perhaps Mmmm, or Muck?

Do you honestly make everyone who’s not a close friend or family member call you Dr X? Surely you must introduce yourself to people by just your first name all the time, so how are they supposed to know what last name and title to use for you?

I think if schools did teach children that everyone should address strangers as Title Last Name unless told otherwise (even adult to adult, and in non work situations) that lots of people would find it old fashioned.

Gosh, you sound quite angry!

I assure you, in professional environments (eg City Finance, big law and accountancy firms, the IT world, big corporates) it would be extremely archaic to meet someone for the first time and call them "Mr Jones". However I think that is probably predicated on the assumption that it is a peer-to-peer relationship, though even a junior graduate trainee would call the CEO of a client "John" on first meeting. Sadly our receptionists in the front desk are probably still trained to call him "Mr Brown", which goes back to unpleasantly feudal attitudes.

I therefore carry this idea of first name being perfectly respectful across with me to interactions on my personal capacity such as with doctors, people in call centres etc. I find use of title plus surname somewhat standoffish.

However I know that many many people would be insulted by being called by their first name without an invitation to do so and it's important to respect that. So it's all about knowing your audience I guess, and the cautious approach is of course to use title plus surname if you're not sure.

All I'm saying is that nowadays you can't make blanket statements about what os polite and what is rude, name-wise.

However I know that many many people would be insulted by being called by their first name without an invitation to do so and it's important to respect that. So it's all about knowing your audience I guess, and the cautious approach is of course to use title plus surname if you're not sure

This is the crux and should apply to all children too.

@Babdoc Thank you..... I was beginning to feel in the minority. I suppose it is also something to do with our age. Also I blame social media, everything is dumbed down, particularly language, I think it is a shame.

I think there is definitely a generational thing here. I find it much ruder when people assume a title (usually Mrs) than when they just use my first name.

Oh come on. I've just described social etiquette in the corporate world and your response is that's because of "dumbing down"?

I'd argue that people who perpetuate feudal forelock-tugging to their "elders and betters" are the dumb ones...

I don't want people using my first name that are not family, friends or work colleagues!

What happened to a certain level of respect? 🤷‍♀️

I agree it’s the opposite of dumbing down. The decline in the popularity of titles is stemming, at least partly, from the fact that women’s lives (and names) are increasingly less likely to be defined by marrying in their early twenties and remaining married until death. Surely no one wants to do a Hokey Cokey of titles through divorce/remarriage.
Without wishing to get into a debate about gender on here, insisting on using titles is also forcing to people to identify themselves in ways they might not wish to be identified. No one should have to get in to a wrangle about preferred pronouns just to place an online shopping order. Making using a title optional rather than a compulsory field would be better for everyone.

No, I'm happy to be called Mrs.
Anyone who isn't is always free to use Ms instead.

Woah, I don’t know anyone who wants to be called Mrs Surname. It’s so old fashioned these days. Including in professional settings. Etiquette changes.

If people call me Ms Surname it is so unusual that it takes me by surprise and makes me think that they think I’m really old. Which is a bit insulting. Like they think I’m from another era.

I don’t understand the idea that using someone’s first name is

I don’t understand the idea that using someone’s first name is disrespectful. I’m presuming it’s mostly generational.

I started work in the nineties and have never been addressed as anything other than my first name! That includes small, medium and large companies in the public and private sectors.

Yeah it’s annoying. I used to use Ms but I don’t really like it. I agree all adult women should be Mrs. In fact, I think I will use Mrs from now on ( even though not married) .

That’s depressing - I haven’t had a dbs check since 2009 and I remember bristling at the time when I had to change my title.

Most doctors (especially younger ones) introduce themselves to patients as their first name, and call patients by first name. It supports collaboration with nurses and other professionals if everyone goes by first name and makes the doctors seem more approachable to the patients. Not rude or disrespectful to use first names these days

I have similar experiences to those mentioned by more than one PP: that my married status and non-use of a Mrs title has been taken as a personal affront by strangers and, more particularly, my MiL. I was genuinely surprised that anyone in the 21st century could care less, much less thought it their place to offer a comment.

I became so tired of this tedious attitude that I began insisting on my Dr title by default. Before my marriage I thought this was pretentious in a non-working context. Now, I'd say it was more legitimate to be proud of a Dr title than 'Mrs'. Getting married and staying married was easy. The PhD was a difficult intellectual undertaking and its completion demanded serious commitment and very hard work.

I'm cringing at what I've written above and it's worth examining why. If you think it sounds up its own arse, or like a stealth brag, that's why I'm cringing. It also reads that way to me, because women in our society are discouraged from being proud of their intellectual and professional achievements. Our measure of success still seems to be our ability to catch and keep a man. It rankles.

Saying you're proud to be a Mrs is a-okay. Saying you're proud to be a Dr or Prof, and jealously guarding your own identity if you happen to hitch your life to a man's? Not so much.

No problem at all with this. But until that happens I will not accept 'Mrs' as any title referring to me (what do we need titles for anyway)? I didn't, the gods forbid, marry my father!

Why should it be age related for women only? Master is almost never used so when you see Mr written down you have no idea what the man’s age is. Why specify the woman’s age?

Well, you told me I didn't want a workable solution when I pointed out the issue with yours, and it isn't any more practical to decide that one groups preferences need to be accommodated than any other. No connotation changes overnight either, and the undeniable historical connotation will simply never be acceptable to many of us.

You're probably right though, deliberately fucking about with titles is the way to go, notwithstanding that Ms means a married woman as much as it does any other woman. Although tbh I lean towards minimising usage full stop myself. The whole faff isn't remotely worth the energy.

Of course not, why would any school waste time imposing your subjective preferences? It would be a ridiculous waste of time at best and actively unhelpful at worst.

That one's easy. Return to sender, not known at this address, and circle the "Mrs." I'd be fuming at them.

I had a woman helping me with some pension paperwork about ten years ago tell me I couldn’t be Ms because I had just told her I was married so legally I had to put Mrs. We had to get her supervisor involved to set her straight.

Completely agree. I'm not married (yet!) but have two children so refuse to use Miss and they're both Miss which is bonkers. So I'm Ms or unspecified!