To warn you about Russian windows?

[CaveMum]

It appears that Russian windows are terribly dangerous. It's shocking the number of critics of Putin who have suffered these "accidents", shocking I tell you!

Can you put "defenestration" on a death certificate 🤔

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62750584

Some of them have died but I'm sure there are plenty more that will take their place. Life in the regular Russian military is pretty awful, after all.

No it isn't, check the dictionary.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on the series of unfortunate events that have befallen Putin critics? Murder and terrorising Russian citizens or freakishly strong gravity spots?

As a pp said, the oligarchs have always been in an uneasy truce with Putin. A few were killed previously but the killings have stepped up recently. Maybe the truce is over?

Incidentally, looks like Zelenskiy has also been doing his own bit of housekeeping in regard to his own oligarchs. Obviously it's a bit more tricky for him because they're directly linked with his rise to power, rather than running loosely parallel to the presidency. But if Kolomoisky really has lost his Ukrainian citizenship he's in a sticky situation - the USA previously denounced him and he'll be running out of options.

kyivindependent.com/hot-topic/rumors-of-zelensky-stripping-top-oligarch-kolomoiskys-citizenship-gain-ground

Maybe the truce is over?

I don't think there's any "maybe" about it. Putin is murdering them, not only to get rid, but to instill terror in the Russian people. He's a total cunt. And he looks like this .

I thought this was going to be a warning against Russian double glazing

And murdered an innocent British citizen in a sleepy cathedral city

they are

Looking on the bright side, at least Gorbachev appears to have died of natural causes, which might be considered quite a surprise given what Putin must have thought of his policies

Of course he wasn't in a position to change things any more, which may have kept him safe

To get where they were, in Russia, means they have their own share of blood on their hands, and lots of it. It’s one branch of the mafia targeting the other in order to assert dominance. Shit versus shit.

At least in the case of the oligarchs.

Quite. The average Russian will be feeling neither terror nor grief at an oligarch being bumped off.

I was wondering if him stepping up the killings was maybe to do with him to uncovering a plot but actually maybe it's just bog standard "don't criticise the state when we're at war".

It's the Russian doctors you have to be careful about.
"Hello Mr Maganov, I'm your doctor and I'll soon have you out of here."

Indeed. General sentiment will be along the lines of ‘oh no! Anyway…’. The average Russian will shed no tears for an Oligarch, in my experience.

No one should be under any illusions as to the nature of the oligarchs. They’re not ‘the good guys’ by virtue of not being Putin. There are only wolves in those woods.

Could also be a bait plot. Have a loyalist to approach some of them to suggest a plot, see who bites, and then get rid of them. Have your enemies expose themselves before they become a credible threat, AND send a clear message at the same time.

Just your average Tuesday in the Kremlin.

Mercenaries are 'soldiers of fortune'. They fight for money, no interest in right or wrong.

Why on earth would you generalise those poor women who have done nothing to you? They’ve gone through enough loss

Yes, with people like the head of Gazprombank and such, it really is not the case that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". These individuals emerged from the ashes of a collapsed economy with power and almost incomprehensible amounts of wealth secured during the wild west days of unfettered rogue capitalism and they did not amass said wealth by selling girl scout cookies. Yeltsin's Moscow was run by the mafia and they all killed a lot of people.

I didn't think about a bait plot; maybe that's it. Or it could be that he figures now there's less money to go around he'll make sure there's fewer people wanting a share of it while the oligarchs' own international standing is weakened.

Someone on CNN earlier this evening said the guy who fell out the window had criticised Putin or the war (I don't remember which) about a month ago.

Interesting thread.

I was thinking the same today. I certainly won't be installing Russian windows in my house any time soon!

Exactly, it’s more ‘what angle do I want to get fucked from?’.

it’s hard to explain just how bad Russia was in the 90s. We’re talking massive homelessness, severe food shortages, people walking up to cars in rush hour traffic and blowing up a car, dead bodies with their heads shot off washing up on river banks daily, rival bratva members suddenly appearing in a busy street and shooting at each other with AKs. Good luck if you were just going about your business and trying to scrape together a semblance of living. What little you had you were required to pay protection fees with, lest you and your family become a target (as opposed to just merely being caught in the crossfire). Meanwhile, the Oligarchs are building their wealth off that. Is the average Russian going to spare sympathy or tears for an oligarch? Of course not, why on earth would they?

When Putin came along, he cut deals and took it off the streets. Of course it still existed, but the average person can accept that if the alternative is what they already lived through.

Yes exactly. It was like Goodfellas when Layla is playing. Except real life.

Plus ofc people had no choice but to work for them. Not that choice comes into mafia anyway, but particularly in Russia during that time, legitimate wages were sketchy at best. Teachers, lecturers, medics etc, either didn't get paid or got paid in rubles. The only way to get consistent hard currency was to take a second/third etc job for a private employer and mostly that meant someone connected/involved.

Really when people in the UK talk about Russians being brainwashed it is ludicrous - they have no idea about the complex shifting choices that Russians have to/have always had to make to get by under whatever system is up and running.

Can't get too worked up about the Russian government offing detractors and enemies.

To be honest I think I'd prefer a "fall" from a window over a trip to a Saudi consulate, American black site, or predator strike that takes out half a dozen by standers too.

It's so bad that making light of it makes it easier if you know what I mean. My friends had to confidentially change their name (they already had British citizenship) because their names were on a list according to our intelligence services. All because they spoke out against putin

Oh God there are loads of people who can't go back to Russia again; this is quite common.

One thing that doesn't help any of it though is this insane anti-Russia mood that's everywhere rn : creatives being cancelled, having contracts revoked, students being refused entry to university. Like, what the fuck? There are wars everywhere, all the time. Our own PM gladly handed over the keys to Mayfair while Russia was merrily bombing the shit out of Syria so it's not like this is some unchanging pure ideological stance. Putin has never ever been a nice guy but nobody outside of Russia cared until they got told to.

Honestly Russians are well versed in dark humor. This is light compared to some I’ve heard.

My father is unlikely to go back to Russia, and tbh so am I. It’s something that does make me sad, because it’s a beautiful country, and while there are terrible people there, there are also some of the kindest I’ve ever met. Unfortunately, it is deeply, deeply fucked. And it has been for centuries.

Read an interesting thread earlier about the psychology of lies in Russia: twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1565772502663450624?s=21&t=JYN1YAq21o84At16wukUDw