My energy bill will still quadruple even if I put a jumper on?

[verdantverdure]

AIBU to think that even if I participate in this weird new “wear warm clothes in wintertime” trend, shut doors, buy draught excluders, buy Oodies, buy thermal curtains, and buy a £300 air fryer my energy bill will still quadruple.

Especially as most people wete already doing all or some of that.

Nothing short of turning the heating off is going to make much difference is it?

(Although of course I'm trying.)

After all, the money saving expert himself, Martin Lewis, says this isn’t something individuals can fix on their own , and it would be pretty arrogant to think I know better than him.

The "Put a jumper on" advice doesn't help British businesses at all does it?

What do you think?

However your estimated bill is based on your previous usage, so if you use as before your estimate based on your new kwph rate is likely to balance out over the year. You could end up in credit if you reduce your usage compared to the amount estimated as.

Or debit if you use more also

somethings do not save money, ie boiling a kettle and putting it in a flask it takes twice as much energy to boil 600ml for 2 mugs as it does 300ml for 1 mug
switching wifi off at router can lower your signal and speed as generally it automatically reduces speed to even out the drops ( caused by switching off) a router uses so little it is not worth switching off, however some other things are.
during winter boiler should be on a frost stat setting at 5-8C so it comes on to stop pipes freezing which will cost you a great deal more than the amount of heat to stop freezing pipes.
clothes are generally not dirty or smelly after one wear, the only things we wash after one wear are pants, socks, thin tights, white school shirts, anything that actually has a mark on that won't sponge off, dishclothes for cleaning surfaces floors etc ( they are saved together with towels and eco face make up removal pads for once a week hot wash ) skirts and jackets that barely touch body don't need washing often, tops, shirts leggings joggers after 2-3 wears, hoodies and jumpers regular trousers when necessary

we have tended to keep ours on 18.5 all day as wfh and DH gets miserable when cold. I’ve noticed that the radiators never get very warm except first thing in the morning when heating house from cold. Conversely if you have it on twice a day and off all daytime the radiators get hot to touch twice a day instead of once. We don’t have a smart meter yet but this winter I think I will take a reading each day and compare methods (of course the temperature and weather needs to be the same on those days).

Yes, energy has gone up, hundredth thread on this as if we didn’t know.

Apart from cutting back where we can, there’s not much else we can do. The bottom line is the government need to intervene more, otherwise people will die or lose their livelihoods.
Simple as that.

😅😅😅

People giving put on a jumper advice shows how little those people grasp the actual problem. It’s very reminiscent of Edwina Curry telling pensioners to wear a woolly hat

If you are on a fixed tariff, you still have to pay more each month if you use more than your provider predicted. Or vice versa, if you use less, you can ask for your monthly amount to be reduced or ask for a refund.

It's a bit like the guy who said "the rise in petrol prices hasn't affected me as I still top up with £20 at the petrol station"

I started being a real energy nerd at the wrong time, so I don’t have accurate figures for a whole year. These are my best guesses. (Apologies for length. I wanted to show my working. TLDR: Even with cutting use to the bone, I need to earn £3000 more this year than last year to pay my fuel bill)

My DD should have been £80 pcm (they insisted on £99, but I clawed £300 back in credit over the year, so I was right!) November 2020-2021

Last winter I implemented EVERY single no or low cost energy saving hack I possibly could. Oven only on twice a week and stuffed to the gills, microwaved or quick hob food the rest of the week. Fridge and freezer turned down (up?), garage freezer defrosted and off, smart plugs to turn things off at night where possible (I only have so many smart plugs). No tumble dryer, DW and washer on eco cycles only, absolute minimum and only when full. Washed bedding once a fortnight, clothes only when really dirty (easily three days for me. Two for the kiddo). Showers twice a week if not seeing anyone, max three times if I needed to be polite. Smart radiator valves where possible, rads totally off in some rooms, heating at 18°C for an hour morning and night, 17°C the rest of the time. Completely off if we are out or at night. Solar nightlights and bedside light for me. I go to bed when the kid does and watch TV on my ipad or read by a kindle or solar light. The camper has a solar panel, so I charge kindle/iPad/solar lights in that. Added chimney blockers, and taped up the cat flap and dryer vent. Added draught excluding tape to external doors and loft hatch. I stopped using convenient appliances like the boiling water tap or food mixer and just did without. I don’t see what more I can do and stay in the 21st century.

I was cold and uncomfortable, even in April and May. I couldn’t afford to go out, and couldn’t afford to keep my home comfortable. It was grim. It did make a difference - about £15 a month. I estimate without the March rise, I’d need to pay £65 a month to be just-about-bearably uncomfortable, but miserable by anyone measure. That was in spring though. Obviously usage is less over the summer anyway, so I’m not totally sure of my figures going into winter.

Now I’m slightly better off. I could just about afford the extra £15 quid a month. Only it isn’t £15. Even with every possible cutback, my energy bill is likely to be about £250 a month (I’ve been offered a fix for £360. It’s including the 20% uplift the energy company insist on, even though they were wrong AND excluding my usage decreases, so I reckon £250 is in the ballpark). And I’ve already cut ALL waste, all nice-to-have’s and some normal usage.

So, I’ve put my metaphorical jumpers on, and I’ve still got to find an additional £170 a month. That’s more than twice my food budget. I can’t just divert it from savings, I’m on the bones of my arse and have no savings.

The point I think OP was making (and I think Mr MSE is also making) is that you can’t thrift your way out of this. Even with borderline-unbearable sacrifices, energy bills are STILL going to increase beyond many people’s capacity to pay them. Even with lowered usage, £170 isn’t a small amount to find for an average earner with average expenses. It’s the equivalent of a basic rate taxpayer’s salary decrease of £3000 a year.

The poverty line has effectively just gone up by £3000 a year. And that’s just energy, not including petrol, travel, food or other necessities which will also rise as a result. Wages have not risen by £3000 a year. Everyone who had £3000 to spare last year will not have anything spare this year. Anyone who had less than that, or has higher energy costs than me or can’t and or isn’t prepared to make the sacrifices I have made (and no one should have to) will have less money coming in than going out.

Who said putting jumpers on is bailing out the boat with a teaspoon? You’re absolutely right. Jumpers, energy saving kettles (FFS Boris! Do you ever learn when to STFU? You have no clue and it’s not your call. Stay out of it) and turning down the thermostat is nibbling at a problem that is going to bite back hard.

(I’ll be ok. I’ve got myself a second winter job. With a bit of luck, I’ll have a bit spare for food increases and Christmas as well. But not everyone is in a position to earn £3000 a year more, are they? And what will they do?)

Can’t believe anyone would think that a fixed tariff means all your fuel for a fixed price per month!!! God, just how stupid are some people?

As I said before , the Government has to intervene. Unfortunately Liz Truss comes across as an idiot and said she wouldn’t help.
But what’s the alternative? Plenty of people work full time and still won’t afford to hear their homes, no matter what sacrifices they try to make.

Martin Lewis here says something like 'There is NO cutting back. There is NO Money Saving Expert. You could put me into one of those households and do every trick in the book and I wouldn't even get close to scratching the sides of what is needed'

https://twitter.com/dickmackintosh/status/1565676038352510982?s=21&t=jAWn96XX_M8kF0OnpKO7vg

I think so too. If our bill goes up to £400,£500,£600 a month we won't be able to spend money on anything else. Replicate that across a population and that is death to a consumer economy like ours.

It looks like Martin Lewis needs to explain the concept of a fixed tariff to the general public, in particular those that are under the impression that it is an all inclusive tariff, that will probably make a huge difference to people's bills. Especially the ones who think they are saving money by sitting round a candle types.

He's been trying, but when certain people keep saying he's catastrophising maybe other people don't listen to him?

It’s a very common model for lots of things now. Streaming services, delivery services, food boxes - Even cars are starting have levels of subscription for features like heated seats. If that’s what you’ve chiefly experienced because you’re 25, AND the stupid thing is a) called a price cap and b) frequently referred to in the media as £XXXX per year, not £XX.xx per unit, it’s a logical assumption. Especially if you just pay your direct debit each month and don’t look at your account to see how it fluctuates.

I not saying it’s inexcusable. But I do think it’s misleading.

And yet every post we get a smart arse saying yes we get it energy prices are going up some how I don't think they do.

Eek I don't really have the words. The next PM should live like that for a year before governing.

Spending £300 on an air fryer is not going to save you anything, you can get a cheap air fryer for £40 that is A rated why spend that much

I freely admit I don't know anything about air fryers, but the only one I saw that said it could do five or six portions was a £300 from Phillips.

@MrsRobinsonsHandprints I feel a bit like if they're not concerned, they don't understand the scale of this issue.

It's sort of my point on this thread. The fellas who predict what future markets are going to do have been spot on (a little under) for the last three price cap rises so if they say it's probably going up to about £5386 in January then I trust that they know better than me, and it probably is. If Martin Lewis says there is no thrifty trick that will even scratch the sides of these price rises then I believe him. He know better than I do.

So as I say in the OP it looks to me as if could wear an extra jumper, buy thermal curtains, and an air fryer, and my bills will still quadruple.

I think what is giving me the screaming ab dabs at the moment is the fact that people aren’t getting the bigger picture…..

As other posters have said, if people end up paying virtually all their wages plus getting into debt just on rent and utilities, the wider economy will collapse.

Locally to me a five star hotel / pub / restaurant has just summarily closed because the predicted increase in their energy bills is so great that they can’t just up their prices to compensate.

The whole situation is utter madness, and I’ve said it before - we’re boiling frogs and provide our own seasoning if more robust collective action isn’t taken.

Oh I can hear the sneers already - what good will protest do? Write to our MPs, vote differently, wear another jumper, I remember the 70s, this too will pass….

But everything was very different in the 70s, technologically for a start…. If we end up with power cuts we get the knock on effect to every part of our infrastructure - everything is automated and supply chains end up backed up and overwhelmed. It’s not as simple as lighting candles and going to bed early with extra layers.

Wherever the fuck this is headed, it’s going to be way worse than everything we can imagine, and none of it will be solved by individual stoicism.

And no, I really don’t think I am catastrophising or scaremongering - I’m 53 and as pragmatic as they come.

This is different, very different.

I feel similarly Mistress People seem to be treating it as a lot of little individual issues, and as if it's solvable in an individual level, and I don't think it is.

The government may say that "households, businesses and industry can be confident that they will get the electricity and gas they need" but what if businesses can't get a tariff they can afford? Our local pub doesn't have its Christmas booking boards and leaflets out yet and I wonder if energy bills have anything to do with it?

Apparently all our problems will he solved by purchasing a new kettle ! Think we could extend that and end homelessness, famine and the war in Ukraine by investing in, say a toaster or sandwich maker. Wish I’d known this before cancelling all of our TV subscriptions .Let them eat cake …. catchy isn’t it. ?