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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To feel let down by couples counsellor not spotting abuse?

97 replies

Namechange2225 · 31/08/2022 17:17

I have recently left my emotionally abusive husband, with amazing support from Women’s Aid.

One thing that really bothers me is that we went to couples counselling for about 6 months last year and many of STBXH were mentioned by me (silent treatment for weeks which only ended when I apologised enough, sulking, stonewalling, needing his way, never apologising, telling me I am not a good mum because of my PND years ago amongst other things…) but counsellor never suggested he was abusive.

In fact, STBXH spent a lot of the sessions talking about how I abused him, without specifics, except a couple of time I shouted at him after being ignored for days, which I fully accepted I shouldn’t have done. The counsellor would often talk about my behaviour which STBXH “thought was abusive” and a lot of time was spent on my “anger issues” and how I needed to change, which just made me feel more guilty about everything and afraid to raise any issue (as he would just say I was trying to argue and he didn’t want to argue with me).

I now know you shouldn’t do counselling with an abuser, but I didn’t realise then that I was in an abusive relationship.

I’ve also learnt a lot about emotional abuse now and feel like the signs were definitely there.

AIBU to feel let down?

OP posts:
Creakychair · 01/09/2022 09:11

Some of these stories are awful and clearly some counsellors shouldn't be practicing, but counsellors aren't really there to act as judge and jury on a relationship and tell you what to do.
They're there to facilitate communication between a relationship and help you process your emotions, which is why its not recommended for abusive situations. They can't jump in and diagnose people and tell people to end a relationship, they can only intervene when there are clear safe guarding issues.
They will help you to see a relationship is bad by gently steering you in that direction, not by coming out and saying it.

OliviaRodrigosMyHero · 01/09/2022 09:18

Gosh so many poor reviews about Relate which is really interesting for me as I also had a horrendous experience with them. Exdh and I did some counselling but the therapist would insist I had 'daddy issues' the whole time and if I didn't agree with what she said or give her the answer she wanted we'd sit in stony silence with her staring at me until I gave her the answer she wanted (which I eventually did because I felt so uncomfortable being silently stared at! ). The counselling didn't really help.

A few years later we returned and I specifically asked Ex to ensure we didn't have the same counsellor, we ended up with the same one again. I told her that exdh had raped me one night so she insisted on seeing us alone. When I went she asked me about it but I didn't want to discuss it. She said she couldn't continue to counsel us unless I did (I wish I'd just left at this point tbh). So I explained what happened and she blamed me for it. I was a wreck for a good couple of weeks after. My ex fully admitted and acknowledged what he did (we'd been together a long time and it was completely out of character as he had never been physically abusive towards me) and he ended up comforting me and telling me it wasn't my fault! He never went to his session alone with the counsellor and we never went back together either. I complained to relate who didn't even bother to reply. I would never ever use or recommend them.

JudyGemstone · 01/09/2022 09:19

Relate counsellors aren’t proper counsellors, they train them in house so their skills and experience are limited.

People go to them because they’re cheaper and they’ve heard of them, doesn’t make them any good though.

A proper private therapist who’s done a masters level qualification and is accredited and not just registered with BACP or even better UKCP is what I’d always recommend.

antelopevalley · 01/09/2022 09:25

Creakychair · 01/09/2022 09:11

Some of these stories are awful and clearly some counsellors shouldn't be practicing, but counsellors aren't really there to act as judge and jury on a relationship and tell you what to do.
They're there to facilitate communication between a relationship and help you process your emotions, which is why its not recommended for abusive situations. They can't jump in and diagnose people and tell people to end a relationship, they can only intervene when there are clear safe guarding issues.
They will help you to see a relationship is bad by gently steering you in that direction, not by coming out and saying it.

Any decent counsellor should be able to spot abuse and have a way of dealing with it. That is not to continue as if counselling a couple together is the solution.

antelopevalley · 01/09/2022 09:28

Relate shockingly are a charity. I thought the counsellors were volunteers, but I may be wrong.

Twocrabs20 · 01/09/2022 09:34

Lundy Bancroft in his book ‘Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and controlling men’ has made clear his thoughts that couples counselling often is a space which keeps women in abusive relationships and is a forum where they are re-abused when most vulnerable.

Some of his observations include:

The highly “therapized” abuser tends to be slick, condescending, and manipulative. He uses the psychological concepts
he has learned to dissect his partner’s flaws and dismiss her perceptions of abuse. He takes responsibility for nothing that he does; he moves in a world where there are only unfortunate dynamics, miscommunications, symbolic acts. He expects to be rewarded for his emotional openness, handled gingerly because of his “vulnerability,” colluded with in skirting the damage he has done, and congratulated for his insight.

I have yet to meet an abuser who has made any meaningful and lasting changes in his behavior toward female partners through therapy, regardless of how much “insight”—most of it false—that he may have gained. The fact is that if an abuser finds a particularly skilled therapist and if the therapy is especially successful, when he is finished he will be a happy, well-adjusted abuser—good news for him, perhaps, but not such good news for his partner. Psychotherapy can be very valuable for the issues it is devised to address, but partner abuse is not one of them; an abusive man needs to be in a specialized program.

Therapy focuses on the man’s feelings and gives him empathy and support, no matter how unreasonable the attitudes that are giving rise to those feelings. An abusive man’s therapist usually will not speak to the abused woman, whereas the counselor of a high-quality abuser program always does.

Therapy typically will not address any of the central causes of abusiveness, including entitlement, coercive control, disrespect, superiority, selfishness, or victim blaming.

It is also impossible to persuade an abusive man to change by convincing him that he would benefit from it, because he perceives the benefits of controlling his partner as vastly outweighing the losses. This is part of why so many men initially take steps to change their abusive behavior but then return to their old ways. There is another reason why appealing to his self-interest doesn’t work: The abusive man’s belief that his own needs should come ahead of his partner’s is at the core of his problem.

Therefore when anyone, including therapists, tells an abusive man that he should change because that’s what’s best for him, they are inadvertently feeding his selfish focus on himself: You can’t simultaneously contribute to a problem and solve it.

Women speak to me with shocked voices of betrayal as they tell me how their couples therapist, or the abuser’s individual therapist, or a therapist for one of their
children, has become a vocal advocate for him and a harsh and superior critic of her.

BlueEggsAndBacon · 01/09/2022 10:05

I work in therapies and sometimes see couples. I remember working with a lady who's husband was really mean and critical of her all the time. Unfortunately in my role I was only able to see them 3 or 4 times.

It's hard when the man is blaming the woman (and it was the woman who was referred to my team. I only saw him because I asked to as things didn't sound right). She would keep saying 'oh he's so supportive, it's me that has to change'. I saw her on her own a couple of times and tried to help her see that she needed to be less self critical and that being around him constantly was adding to be negative voice. I also tried to explain to him that if he keeps telling her she's useless, a failure etc.. then her self esteem and mood will deteriorate not improve. I could see that the only way for her to 'recovee' would be to leave him. However, I could also see that was extremely extremely unlikely.

I don't know what's happened to them, but I don't it will have ended well. Sometimes your hands are tied as a MH professional.

I worked with a woman (on her own, not in couples counseling) who's husband was strangling her, beating her up. I tried so hard to encourage her to leave, report to police etc... But she wouldn't. Sometimes there isn't anything you can do. If the person has capacity and choses not to leave, and will not report/will deny everything to police etc... then there's not a lot you can do.

Dacquoise · 01/09/2022 10:08

Just to add that I have been in personal therapy on and off for over ten years and it's been life changing for me. I got away from my dysfunctional family of origin, unhealthy friendships and divorced and successfully defended a court case my exH brought against me. So fully qualified therapists are invaluable in my book.

It's the 'relationship' counsellors I would be very wary of. There's a lot of excellent help out there (unfortunately mostly privately funded) so I would recommend individual therapy before joint counselling every day.

SudocremOnEverything · 01/09/2022 10:19

@BlueEggsAndBacon A big difference there is you are recognising that there is a problem. And, even if you aren’t able to make a woman see it or leave, you can adapt what you are doing to minimise the harm that a counsellor could do.

What many of us are describing here is counsellors who ignore disclosures of abuse and clear evidence of it and then side with their abuser. That’s quite a different proposition.

Hankunamatata · 01/09/2022 10:31

We saw separate relate related counsellors to begin with and both questioned us about abusive aspects to see if we were safe. Then after about 5 sessions we did joint counselling. Their theory was to work on our own issues then work together

Creakychair · 01/09/2022 10:36

Any decent counsellor should be able to spot abuse and have a way of dealing with it. That is not to continue as if counselling a couple together is the solution.
And what do you expect them to do when they see it ?
If a couple is going to counselling they are usually trying to save a relationship, one party usually doesn't want to hear it and you are possibly putting someone at risk by directly saying it. Their hands are tied in what they can do.
They shouldn't continue to work with a couple when there are clear signs of abuse, but some abuse has many layers to it that would take time to work through before they reached that conclusion.
Clearly there are some bad counsellors out there, but I do think some people have unrealistic expectations of what they can and can't do.

autocollantes · 01/09/2022 11:21

Twocrabs20
I had my heart in my mouth for most of that. What he described is 100% what happened in the joint therapy and then again in mediation, only then he used a corporate/legal framework within which to present himself as the good guy/victim and make me look like I'm out to harm him.

I'm a bit lost for words now.

antelopevalley · 01/09/2022 11:32

@Creakychair There are plenty of comments on this thread where women talked about their abuse even a rape.

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/09/2022 11:36

There really is no excuse for any counsellor - especially not one employed by one of the UK’s most significant counselling charities! - not to have a good understanding of this stuff.

Its worrying particularly given that Relate train all their own counsellors, in saying that a good proportion of their counsellors are still in training completing their practice placement as they go.

Creakychair · 01/09/2022 11:47

antelopevalley · 01/09/2022 11:32

@Creakychair There are plenty of comments on this thread where women talked about their abuse even a rape.

I have acknowledged in both comments I have made that there are bad counsellors.
Sorry, but to put it bluntly

If you have suffered abuse what realistically are you expecting a counsellor to do for you as a couple ?
Pat you on the head and tell you it will be ok ?
Write you a letter telling you its ok to leave ?
Work a miracle and turn an abuser into a loving partner ?
Its not recommended for people in abusive relationships, for a reason.

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/09/2022 12:09

If you have suffered abuse what realistically are you expecting a counsellor to do for you as a couple ?

I doubt it’s about what the counsellor can do for them as a couple so much as what the counsellor should be paying attention to, eg recognising the dynamics of abuse, realising they can very easily be played out with the counsellor, being self aware enough to know the counsellor too can be weaponised by the abuser, using supervision openly to help guard against that, seeing couples separately, being clear about the counsellors own boundaries.

Any indication of abuse should change the manner and means of therapy, a relationship counsellor who can’t recognise abuse or who doesn’t properly understand the impact of domestic abuse frankly shouldn’t be working with couples.

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/09/2022 12:16

They will help you to see a relationship is bad by gently steering you in that direction, not by coming out and saying it.

Nonsense, it’s not the first time I’m named behaviour in a relationship as abusive, nit in a joint couples session but certainly in individual sessions. Part of the therapeutic relationship is congruence - I’m not being congruent at all if I’m listening to someone down play extremely abusive behaviour as “difficult” and don’t present a different possible understanding of what’s going on.

SudocremOnEverything · 01/09/2022 13:26

Creakychair · 01/09/2022 11:47

I have acknowledged in both comments I have made that there are bad counsellors.
Sorry, but to put it bluntly

If you have suffered abuse what realistically are you expecting a counsellor to do for you as a couple ?
Pat you on the head and tell you it will be ok ?
Write you a letter telling you its ok to leave ?
Work a miracle and turn an abuser into a loving partner ?
Its not recommended for people in abusive relationships, for a reason.

This is about counsellors taking responsibility for the very real harm that they can do in their practice. It’s not about them solving the issues.

It is not ok for counselling you just say ‘well it’s not for abusive situations’ and wash their hands of the responsibility for not doing more harm.

That’s a fairly basic ethical expectation. Especially in an area or practice - relationship counselling - where people who don’t realise they are being abused are very likely to be clients. Because the narrative is that you go to counselling to solve problems. And they know there’s a problem - just not that it is abuse.

It’s also not necessarily widely known that counselling is not suitable where there is abuse. People will stray into this and counselling (as an area of practice with a professional body) has a responsibility to not exacerbate the abuse they are experiencing.

SudocremOnEverything · 01/09/2022 13:27

Tbh, this feels a bit like the US gun lobby’s defence tactics.

Creakychair · 01/09/2022 13:27

@Jellycatspyjamas I think I covered that when I acknowledged there are bad counsellors, anything you have mentioned there would be well known to a competent counsellor.

SudocremOnEverything · 01/09/2022 13:28

It’s just not our fault if people use out products for the wrong things. No. It’s not our responsibility if the wrong people but guns and use them the wrong way.

Apl · 01/09/2022 13:30

SudocremOnEverything · 31/08/2022 17:36

No. You’re not unreasonable to feel let down.

IME counsellors can be extremely bad at dealing with abuse and can, in fact, allow themselves to become tools of the abuse very easily.

My experience was with a relate counsellor (as chosen by STBXH). In the initial session - the one where they are checking for suitability etc - he totally manipulated the entire process. Played the victim. He even admitted to me afterwards that he was purposefully using the session to ‘prove’ I was in the wrong. He wanted to enlist the counsellor as his weapon against me.

In the individual session, I had with the counsellor we were allocated, I discussed this with her. So she definitely KNEW that he’d told me this was his intention. I also discussed several other things with her, including how he was financially abusing me and I had no access to money even to feed and clothe my children. That he’d purposeful lied and obsfucated to make me think that I was just overspending rather than him controlling all the money.

i was, as you can imagine, as mess. I was on maternity leave, with no access to money (he’d timed this for me not having any income), with obvious postnatal depression (on antidepressants), having recently had an unexpected pregnancy and miscarriage that I hadn’t even been able to tell him about at the time because it was hard enough without him being awful to me about that (he was when he found out). I was angry and all over the place.

Yet this counsellor not only decided to continue with the counselling, but actively took his side against me. In the final session, it turned into her telling me off and lecturing me about his I just had to remove boundaries I’d put in place to protect myself because the lack of them caused me to be depressed to the point of suicide ideation (and I’d told her about this, including that id worked with a counsellor to figure out some boundaries). I asked for the session to stop and she refused to stop. She continued, just telling my husband what he wanted to hear.

I left that night, with police involvement because he was threatening to prevent me leaving with the breastfed baby - and went to my mums with no money at all. I ended up in emergency homeless accommodation because of how awful my STBXH was. That counsellor not only failed to recognise a dangerous situation, but actually colluded with him in making me much less safe.

I later discovered that his account of relate counselling with his first wife, also involved him enlisting the counsellor to his side to the point that she got upset and angry and stormed out. At which point the counsellor apparently talked to him about he’s such a poor victim and so on. Which sounds very similar to what happened to me (except I had to have it happen on zoom in my home with nowhere to escape too).

There are a lot of extremely bad counsellors out there who do a great deal of damage to victims of domestic abuse. Especially if they dare not to present as nice, sympathetic victims. You’d think that could sellers would know that traumatised people don’t present nicely. But no.

My experience was also that relate’s complaints process is as useful as a chocolate teapot. It took many sessions in the domestic abuse counselling the homelessness services social worker referred me to for me to learn to recognise how badly I had been let down. And that it’s not at all uncommon for women to have these kind of experiences, especially with partners who are extremely good at presenting their perplexed, reasonable guy with mental wife image to the world.

😥

There are a lot of bad counsellors around I think.

I’m so sorry for what happened to you.

Twocrabs20 · 01/09/2022 15:21

@autocollantes I almost lost my mind in couples counselling - going round in circles, and remained far too long in an emotionally abusive relationship. The process of couples counselling kept me trapped.

When I read Lundy Bancroft’s book, it was like a light switch was turned on. I couldn’t then un-see the emotional abuse. I immediately cancelled couples counselling and quietly took steps to leave.

Its a powerful book and should be essential reading for every woman.

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/09/2022 15:25

@Jellycatspyjamas I think I covered that when I acknowledged there are bad counsellors, anything you have mentioned there would be well known to a competent counsellor.

I think even with competent counsellors there’s a lack of awareness around safeguarding, folk working in ways they honestly believe to be correct but without the wider view of their duty to safeguard their clients.

They will help you to see a relationship is bad by gently steering you in that direction, not by coming out and saying it.

Even the concept of “gently steering” isn’t particularly helpful, in that it suggests a slow manipulation of the client to see their relationship in the same way the counsellor does (ie that it’s bad) rather than plainly stating and owning their assessment of the relationship as abusive and giving the client space to consider that.

I don’t think it’s enough to simply state there are bad counsellors out there, some are unaware of safeguarding issues, some are unaware of how harmful poor practice is and some will have been in sessions with posters here and feel they’ve done a good job despite the hurt caused.

Horcruxe · 01/09/2022 15:28

I'm really not being goady, but I think in the end whether you will leave or not is up to you.

If you weren't happy, it is not someone else's responsibility to tell you to leave.

Maybe she should have mentioned it, if she had noticed it but I dont think you can put any blame on her.

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