To feel let down by couples counsellor not spotting abuse?

[Namechange2225]

I have recently left my emotionally abusive husband, with amazing support from Women’s Aid.

One thing that really bothers me is that we went to couples counselling for about 6 months last year and many of STBXH were mentioned by me (silent treatment for weeks which only ended when I apologised enough, sulking, stonewalling, needing his way, never apologising, telling me I am not a good mum because of my PND years ago amongst other things…) but counsellor never suggested he was abusive.

In fact, STBXH spent a lot of the sessions talking about how I abused him, without specifics, except a couple of time I shouted at him after being ignored for days, which I fully accepted I shouldn’t have done. The counsellor would often talk about my behaviour which STBXH “thought was abusive” and a lot of time was spent on my “anger issues” and how I needed to change, which just made me feel more guilty about everything and afraid to raise any issue (as he would just say I was trying to argue and he didn’t want to argue with me).

I now know you shouldn’t do counselling with an abuser, but I didn’t realise then that I was in an abusive relationship.

I’ve also learnt a lot about emotional abuse now and feel like the signs were definitely there.

AIBU to feel let down?

I am so shocked reading this thread. I really want to know what the hell Relate is doing about this - are they blind? Clearly it’s a massive endemic problem and they need to train counsellors how to deal with it. @justinemumsnet can you please consider adding this to your list of issues that Mumsnet can use their high profile to draw attention to?

I’m lucky enough not to have had to deal with this specific situation (though for other reasons the counselling profession have let me & those close to me down too); but OP and other posters have you thought of asking Relate or similar to engage with this - or even connected media outlets who might be interested or helpful in drawing attention to it? I see the phrase ‘don’t go to counselling if you’re in an abusive relationship’ on here so often but have never heard it in RL.

I hope you all find the validation you need to believe in yourselves.

Just hoping you haven’t mentioned real names here - otherwise maybe de if MNHQ can edit.

Sorry, that was to hopeandlove - forgot to quote!

I do not think the Relate counsellors seem like they have enough training. They seem trained to deal with couples that do not listen to each other properly and just need someone to get them to listen to each other and properly communicate. Anything more complex and they are pretty hopeless.

Does anybody listen to Laura Richards' Crime Analyst podcast? She's responsible for getting the coercive control law brought in in England and Wales, plus other countries. She trains police forces and has developed a thing called DASH to help police determine if there's coercive control/non-violent abuse when attending DV call outs. She analyses crimes where they've been at play and not picked up on. She and/or Dr Jessica Taylor who also trains police should be brought in to give their no-nonsense trainings and reform how Relate does things. Personally I'd like to see all mediators also trained in how to spot non-physical forms of DV too.

As an aside, if anybody is interested, Laura Richards is currently doing a long series picking apart the Gabby Petito case in the US, highlighting all the signs the police didn't see when they stopped her and Brian (he ended up being put up by a domestic violence shelter while Gabby was seen as the problem). Richards used to head the homicide division at New Scotland Yard, so she's not just a random podcaster doing this!

”I hope you are all happy and doing well now.”

Thank you, OP. It’s taken me three years, but I am finally finding myself again and beginning to feel that life is becoming more stable and that I might begin to feel more consistently stable and content, as I was when I was young.

I guess everybody’s journey is different, but I hadn’t really considered that it would take me quite so long to get back on an even keel. I now have a much better relationship with my children than I ever thought possible after the damage SBXH did. You have done the right thing in moving out and even if things are tough for a while, it will get better.

Another similar story here from me. Our relate counsellor had some oddly preconceived notions of me that she let slip, it was like she was talking about someone completely different and hadn't been listening to at all.

My exH had her convinced I was the problem too I'm sure. Eventually I gave up trying to put forward my issues and just tried to get on with my homework, he was delighted when our sessions turned into chatting awkwardly with the therapist and we decided it was pointless to continue.

After we separated we went to separate people, well he says he did apparently his counsellor told him I was the problem, had XYZ issues and my behaviour was deplorable.

He emotionally and financially abused me, lied, gaslighted, manipulated and punished me for years. I had a breakdown but apparently I was the problem

Relate can kiss my arse.

I saw a Relate counsellor with an XP. At one session at the end I was crying and saying I was scared to go home with him and she still didn't address abuse. We then paid for a much more experienced private counsellor who saw us together and separately but then said she couldn't carry on counselling us as things were because of the dynamics of the relationship and said he needed a referral to a psychiatrist and I needed to work out what I wanted from life. Relate was appalling.

Had exactly the same experience. So sorry for those here who experienced it too.

private family therapist at a point when I thought I/our relationship was the problem….Counsellor seemed to side with EXH & validate his story that I needed anger management/ was impossible to live with.

it put back my leaving for 5 years. Eventually got out with WA & police support. But by that point, the coercive control had escalated so badly that I really was a mess mentally.

I’ve wondered about going back to see the counsellor and explaining about emotional abuse, so that no-one she suffers. But can’t seem to face doing it. I don’t have much faith in any complaints process from BACP either (she was registered with them).

I have always wondered this.
The reason I have never suggested counselling in these circumstances.
Abusers are so clever. They take in many people around them. Many. So why not a counsellor?

I figured that if a counsellor was to agree with an abuser, the abuser would have more "ammuntion". For life.
Too big a risk to take.

It probably isnt always the case, but I never fancied finding out.

Relate failed me too. Listened patiently to my abusive ex and asked me whether I thought I'd possibly done something which justified his anger. And that was in a separate session as well.

Fortunately I had already left at this point and I quickly realised these sessions weren't't going to get us anywhere helpful though!

Yes, but this implies that ‘real’ counsellors would behave in a more professional manner, and this isn’t necessarily the case.

I am a bit cynical about counselling in general, though. I think a lot of it is a bit akin to cults or pyramid schemes.

One of the main reasons for this I now know you shouldn’t do counselling with an abuser, but I didn’t realise then that I was in an abusive relationship, is that abusers are good at appearing to not be abusive and a lot of counsellors will not see it. Couples therapy can just entrench the abuse and make the abusers narrative more plausible because now someone who should know better has not labelled them abusive. The abuser can cherry pick what they tell the therapist, they can make a narrative of you as the angry unreasonable one and them the poor man that tries so hard and loves you despite your nagging and anger. Abusers manage to fly under the radar in every day life because they can do this, because they are plausible, because they come across well, because they can fake being a good person and a good partner to the outside world. If they couldn't the relationship would have ended very early on and you'd have been free of their abuse.

Correct training doesn't mean they're good, but it should be the first criteria they need to pass. Every profession is the same, some people are good at what they do, many are ok, and some are worse then useless.

I think it’s certainly worth raising this with your counselling provider OP, and possibly the counselled themselves.

Much more awareness and some systems needed. Worth suggesting to them they speak to women’s aid about how to put systems in place.

Another one with a similar experience here - the sessions were during lockdown and done over Zoom, and I remember getting screamed at by my ex afterwards for innocuous things I'd said (I was too scared to talk about the abuse, these were just little things). I was very shut down in the sessions and I don't understand why the counsellor couldn't see it. He gloated after one session about how she was on his side. I actually talked to her on my own a while later and managed to say some of what was really going on and she was floored and told me I needed to think about leaving.

In fact, just remembered another time with a mental health professional and watching my ex play the victim and manipulate the whole situation. I was terrified to go home afterwards.

There needs to be some sort of basic training done in recognising abuse, at the very least. It was absolutely crushing for me that no one saw any problem with my ex.

I had counseling with my exH at his insistence after I finally got the courage to tell him I wanted out. He spent the whole sessions trying to get me back under control and charming the counselor.

I was still at the not really aware how emotionally abusive he was so sat there listening to him making me the 'problem'. The counselor was very forthright in her opinions, calling me a 'human doing rather than a human being'. Also ignored him literally changing tack mid sentence when he realised he'd said something inconsistent with his charm campaign. She seemed quite offended when I got up to leave as I felt attacked by her.

I think there should be a detailed written questionnaire of both parties situation before any counseling commences as it allows the dominant party to hijack the sessions. I wasn't able to articulate what was going on in the marriage sitting in front of him. I was still mired in the fog of his control and he used it to his advantage.

A good counselor should be able to pick up the relevant dynamic before making sweeping judgements. They do a lot of damage including reinforcing the abuse.

I don't know what training relationship counsellors go through but generally counsellors aren't trained in identifying abuse. Abuse is a pattern of behaviour and not what you see in your session. Relationship counselling is for people who struggle to communicate, or where life circumstances have caused difficulties or barriers in the relationship. It isn't for relationships where abuse exists.

I imagine more through training in identifying abuse would be helpful, but then I wonder about reactive abuse? What if the victim of long term abuse, who reacts abusively (not uncommon I believe), and they are the ones "identified" as the abuser? Long term abusers are often manipulative and very good at being the victim. It really is a difficult area to work with. The abuser is often not there to change themselves either, they are taking part in counselling to attack or destabilise their partner?

I think we know more about the types of behaviour that can lead to abuse, and we know more about co-dependency. This information should be more widely shared and recognised by all. I personally seek out information to share with adult DC. I do wonder if standard, non refutable information should be given at schools?

Totally agree with this. I got an immense amount of flack from my own family and a lot of friends because they only saw Mr Charming and had no idea what he was like to live with.

So you suffer more abuse from ignorant outsiders. He deliberately isolated me when we got divorced and it's taken me a very long time to initiate new friendships because of the judgement and at times nastiness suffered because of his manipulation.

Sadly this is correct. I know someone who is manipulative herself, who goes by her first opinion and never changes her mind no matter what new information she's given: she's done a 12 week correspondence course on counselling and is now advertising for clients.

I dread to think of any vulnerable people seeking her counsel. 😱

I think a lot of counsellors are a bit shit tbh. They have a little bit of knowledge and no critical thinking - think anyone who talks about attachment styles as a fact when it's a very outdated theory.

Training should be given in how abused partners often present. ‘Reactive abuse’ is a problematic term (it’s very victim blamey) for what is often a trauma response in a ongoing traumatic situation. The expectation that abused women should be meek and quiet is a problem. An angry, emotional and reactive women who seems triggered to fight or flight by small things her apparently extremely reasonable and calm partner says in the session is actually a big waving red flag for her being abused by a manipulative bastard.

I remember sitting in sessions saying, ‘but he is lying. He’s deliberately saying things that he knows are objectively not true. He’s already admitted that he lied throughout the first session with the intention of making me look like the bad guy.’ And then getting more and more upset as the counsellor dismissed this with ‘well we all have different accounts’. He was literally sitting there claiming the sky was pink and she was enabling him to gaslight me. She even told me that I was too caught up with the idea of truth. I remember getting very annoyed with her and saying that I’m very well versed in epistemological arguments about the difficulty around objective truth. But, since this was not a philosophy class, it did actually matter whether he went to the gym and left me with the kids or not.

It isn’t sufficient to say ‘oh well, counselling isn’t for abusive situations’ when domestic abuse is so common and will be present in a significant proportion of couples attending counselling. If counselling services cannot recognise abuse dynamics in couples, then they will be doing a great deal of harm.

With my friend they suggested her husband has counselling separately (this was due to his own depression and alcoholism). She then had counselling on her own and things were picked up.

I have never had counselling, but I am not surprised by these stories, as through my work I have met many people training to become counsellors, and a pattern emerged to me that some very odd people become counsellors, and not often to the benefit of others.

My experience with counsellors is varied: I’ve had bad, mediocre and good with Relate and now have a fabulous private therapist. But from my experience I would always recommend solo counselling rather than couples. Couples counselling seems to work on the assumption that both parties are well balanced, well meaning humans who just have a bit of trouble communicating; add to that the ‘anyone can be a counsellor’ approach and it just isn’t going to work.