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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To dread seeing this friend? Pyramid scheme

119 replies

oneproudmumma · 31/08/2022 10:03

My friend has recently gone down a so called healthy eating path which promotes herbal stuff that she sells (some kind of pyramid scheme). Her Instagram is full of pics of her in a bikini sucking her stomach in and of "success stories" etc. I find it all a bit cringe.

She tried to post a link to my Facebook wall to promote something which I swiftly deleted.

I don't see her too often these days but more recently she keeps asking me to meet up with her and I've been putting it off because I'm dreading her trying to push this weird diet and supplements on me.

AIBU?

OP posts:
FourChimneys · 31/08/2022 15:48

Several years ago I knew a young child who was dying of cancer. I also knew a woman who was selling aloe vera or some such nonsense. She was desperate to be put in touch with the mother of the dying child to sell her miraculous "cure".

She was so brainwashed she thought she knew better than Great Ormond Street. She also had a product to help the parents through their grief, apparently. Utter wickedness at a terrible time.

Chesneyhawkes1 · 31/08/2022 15:52

Someone on my fb has recently started Herbal Life.

Pictures of shakes, pictures of people who've lost loads of weight etc.

Thankfully I've escaped receiving a message so far ....

CruCru · 31/08/2022 15:55

The wikipedia entry for Herbalife is interesting. They're under investigation by the Department of Justice (US) and there were some investigations in Israel as to whether the products cause liver damage.

This is one of those times where it is more polite to be direct. You are not interested in Herbalife products and are certainly not going to sell them.

People selling this sort of shit rely on you being polite. It's why they market to women.

oneproudmumma · 31/08/2022 17:24

keeptalkinghappytalk · 31/08/2022 15:30

I’ve noticed Herbalife use local slimming clubs and church hall type places … you’d only realise once you’d joined up to the ‘ village slimming club’ … must be loads of well meaning people sucked in and good help them with the financial crisis …

Yes, this. A local "slimming group" she runs has suddenly popped up. It doesn't appear to have many members Confused She tried to entice me into joining that too, when I declined she asked me to spread the word to my mum friends!

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oneproudmumma · 31/08/2022 17:27

@CruCru that's interesting and yes, valid points about them marketing to women.

@Chesneyhawkes1 the before and after pics though are mostly one of them letting their stomach out in the after pics!! I don't see many with noticeable weight loss from this nonsense.

OP posts:
Trying20 · 31/08/2022 17:45

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Chesneyhawkes1 · 31/08/2022 17:50

@oneproudmumma it's all about the bloating at the minute 😂😂🤦‍♀️

momonpurpose · 31/08/2022 18:43

These mlm people. I have a cousin who I always though was a very intelligent person. Engineer great job. I finally blocked him when he put up a post about these shakes curing cancer tagging a cousin who was on her 2nd round of chemo. He messaged me from a unknown number after my father's death to give condolences and ask to meet up to tell me about a great opportunity...

YouOKHun · 31/08/2022 18:57

FourChimneys · 31/08/2022 15:48

Several years ago I knew a young child who was dying of cancer. I also knew a woman who was selling aloe vera or some such nonsense. She was desperate to be put in touch with the mother of the dying child to sell her miraculous "cure".

She was so brainwashed she thought she knew better than Great Ormond Street. She also had a product to help the parents through their grief, apparently. Utter wickedness at a terrible time.

That will be Forever Living. Dreadful. fL also claimed that their product was in demand at GOSH for children with burns - it was rubbish and I believe the hospital went as far as refuting it directly.

The problem with MLM isn’t so much the overpriced products and the lies told about the products but the lies told about the opportunity, that’s what really does the damage to people. Once they’re in the MLM they discover it’s not really about the products at all, it’s all about recruiting and rewards are all stacked heavily towards recruiting a downline. The really pushy ones are the ones trying to recruit you. But it doesn’t matter what they do, they will almost certainly be part of the 99.6% who lose money once their expenses are factored in.

The numbers don’t stack up and it is impossible to make money from selling product, it can’t be done. Many of the top bots have barely sold any product. The only way to make money is to recruit recruit recruit but that’s impossible because there just aren’t enough people on the planet. If I recruit 5 people and those 5 recruit 5 people each and those 25 recruit 5 people each and so on, that process only needs to happen about 15 times before we would run out of world population. So the people who join early and recruit heavily (usually possible because it’s a new thing) make the money provided they keep recruiting. In reality the money makers represent less than 1% of all sign ups to MLM. It’s a scandal that we aren’t regulating MLM in the U.K. and recognising them for what they are; pyramid schemes operating behind a veneer of “direct selling”.

@Trying20 yep, very concerning and “join my MLM to help with the cost of energy” is very much the recruiting technique of the moment but these companies don’t care and their representative trade body, The Direct Selling Association is encouraging this angle as a lucrative way in to people’s hearts and wallets ☹️

@oneproudmumma I don’t know if you’ve seen some of these antiMLM resources but they are pretty informative:
The Secrets of the Multilevel Millionaires (on BBC iPlayer)
www.MLMtruth.org
Talented Ladies Club - excellent articles examining the lies and misrepresentations of MLM companies.

Trying20 · 31/08/2022 19:03

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oneproudmumma · 31/08/2022 19:12

@YouOKHun thanks for the link, I'll have a look later.

I can totally believe no one makes money from these schemes - have seen others dabble in Usborne books and Body shop at home and they never last long on these ventures.. the separate Instagram accounts that they set up for these get-rich-quick schemes have all been abandoned.

OP posts:
Scurryfunge12 · 31/08/2022 19:15

I find it astonishing that people are still getting sucked into this crap even now. I could understand it a bit more when it first started to become popular because it might have seemed attractive but these days surely people must realise it’s a con and very hard to sell this crap never mind the risk of losing friends!?

I have no sympathy anymore, it’s well known.

kateandme · 31/08/2022 22:03

I think what the sad thing is is with weight loss people will do anything.what kind of society do we live in where people will want to beleive anything in order to be thinner.that’s what it comes down to.but the problem is wider.the thin ideal is so coveted.it’s not about health it society accepting people only when thinner.it’s when all all all things are thin=better,accepted,ok.
because those Herbalife things are hollow.but most diets are.
95% of diets fails with a large percent putting it back on and more.but these conpanys(have a look often run by men)play on woman’s need to be thin.so you lose enough but fail.then you have to go back.but tounintially lose enough before failing and so on and so on.

kateandme · 31/08/2022 22:05

Plus those pictures are not only fake.they aren’t even the company or persons pictures!
my friend was doing a picture of her in new shorts.she was showing how they fit on an ibs day and around her bloated belly.they stole her picture.taken literally 2 seconds apart!

oneproudmumma · 31/08/2022 22:16

@kateandme yes I agree. All of these diets are fads really, long term they rarely work because they aren't sustainable. I can't think of anything worse than having a herbal smoothie for breakfast either bleeeuughh.

Also I suffer from IBS so I wouldn't touch stuff like this in case it messes my stomach up. I'm really careful with diets generally.

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YouOKHun · 31/08/2022 22:53

Yep @Trying20 its a cynical strategy to target vulnerability and it’s vulnerability that gets people hooked in, not stupidity. The classic example I come across all the time is the new mum who doesn’t have a well paying flexible career to fall back on and needs a full time salary but wants to be with her baby. Someone sidles up to her at the baby group, love bombs her, builds trust, flashes external signs of success, offers friendship, validates, offers a friendly team and says “I used to be like you, worried I’d have to abandon my child [guilt trip]. But since I’ve been with Arbonne/Body Shop at Home/Younique/Tropic/Forever Living/FM World etc etc I’ve got total flexibility and don’t have to be away from my child and I’m earning good money”. That’s a beguiling story and I feel truly sorry for the people who fall for it.

I don’t think people are that aware @Scurryfunge12 which seems crazy, and it’s amazing how they will aggressively repel any questioning or criticism by worried partners and family members. There is one expert on cults in the USA who refers to MLMs as commercial cults because so much of their recruitment and retention strategies are identical to the sort of techniques used in cults and closed groups, for example love bombing, gaslighting, isolation from family, filling up a persons time to keep them distracted from outside influences, criticising outsiders, financial abuse, bamboozling information about how they are structured, applying pressure to achieve certain group wide goals.

Once they’re in the MLM the pressure is immense to exploit their own friendships and to be their own best customer (yes, most product sales are made within the MLM through sales to downlines or self purchases to achieve promotions). Uplines are not rewarded for their downlines’ sales to real customers who aren’t part of the MLM, they are rewarded for what their downlines purchase (whether those downlines can sell it later - they don’t care about that!). Because it’s so hard to make money desperate and unscrupulous tactics happen, with MLM companies having no interest in ethical conduct among their reps who they say are “independent”. People end up doing things they wouldn’t have dreamed of before they were tangled up in MLM. Here is one typical tactic which was rife during the pandemic; www.talentedladiesclub.com/articles/dont-donate-to-charities-through-mlms-why-their-good-deeds-arent-as-innocent-as-they-seem/

I think a lot of people don’t understand what a pyramid scheme is so they don’t see how MLM is exactly the same in structure (and bad outcomes). The victims enter an MLM and when it goes wrong blame themselves (as they’re encouraged to do) and then the individual company, rather than seeing MLM as one big scam. if they could see that then they wouldn’t go from one MLM to another hoping each time that the new MLM will finally deliver what it promises. I think MLM targets the less financially literate and those with fewer options.

The people I don’t feel sorry for are the ones who know they’re exploiting people, who are signing up vulnerable people by misrepresenting what MLM is and they know that person will lose everything. These exploiters are often self styled ‘coaches’; teaching MLM sign ups how to make six figures when they’ve failed to make any money themselves in MLM. Nothing will change until the Competition and Markets Authority starts to go after these companies but at the moment they don’t seem interested. If you want to know why the law on trading schemes isn’t being used to regulate or close down MLM and why no one can be arsed you’ve only to look at who most of the victims are; women. Yes, MLM sign ups are complicit in their own downfall to an extent but to focus on that lets the MLM companies off the hook.

Sorry for my rambling comment but I absolutely loathe MLM and the more I see the more I’m shocked that they’re allowed to continue.

oneproudmumma · 01/09/2022 04:41

@YouOKHun very interesting, thank you for posting. I guess my friend isn't particularly financially literate but she does have a good,, well respected job, which is why I was surprised when she got sucked in to this Herbalife gimmick.

OP posts:
Riverlee · 01/09/2022 04:51

Someone I know has joined a local health club and become a fitness coach. Suddenly achievement pictures of people started appearing on Facebook with boards displaying weight loss, fat loss, etc and ‘well done ‘ comments. At first, thought she had joined a new gym, and then noticed the Herbalife tshirt etc. To be fair, she hasn’t tried to sell Herbalife, so maybe these new Wellness clubs are a new direction. Ironically, this person is already a runner, fit and healthy, slim so doesn’t need to get fit as she already is.

Thepossibility · 01/09/2022 05:02

I had a old friend contact me to catch up. She wanted to set up a stall at my work and flog her wares to my clients!

Bollindger · 01/09/2022 05:18

You tell her your really pleased she is enjoying her Herbalife experience but your doctor has warmed you that it won't work with the medication your on and could kill you, as it increases the effects of some ingredients. That just say the fact go over your head and you just are following Doctors orders.
Also that if she is trying to get you to sell that you just can't do it. No explanation. Just you can't do it.
Then ask her about something different.
If she gets really push hold your pain towards her , in a non threatening away, laugh and say " I just can't do it."

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 01/09/2022 06:03

Ah Herbalife! Sick of hearing friends say to support their small businesses, keep explaining they aren't business owners, they're basically shop staff virtually. When Covid happened, the ones I know started pushing it even more. I keep ignoring them.

oopsfellover · 01/09/2022 06:23

I’d perhaps meet up with her this once and see what it’s like. I’d also want to be very clear that I wouldn’t be buying anything (you don’t need to tell her it’s shit, just say sorry you’re not interested). If she turns out to be a
nightmare that’s the time to create distance.

oopsfellover · 01/09/2022 06:25

I wouldn’t bother with any of the lies about allergies etc, as she’ll probably have answers to those.

OperaStation · 01/09/2022 06:52

Oh dear, she’ll definitely be trying to recruit you.

Have a read of this amazing blog about someone’s experience of the Younique MLM ellebeaublog.com/poonique/

There are also a couple of really interesting documentaries about MLMs that are worth watching. Apparently they almost all start in Salt Lake City.

pictish · 01/09/2022 06:53

My workplace has quite a few people selling this sort of crap. I have standard and honest answers for anyone trying it on with me.

Body Shop - I get everything from Tesco and Boots. I don’t need anything.
Scentsy - I don’t use wax melts, thanks. I’ve got a load of scented candles given as gifts to work through. I don’t need anything.
Tropic - I’ve just bought a load of skincare, so I don’t need anything.

I don’t need anything.
I don’t need anything.
I don’t need anything.

Go away.

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