To rat out these CFs

[gerbalgreen]

Two family members, who I used to think were very nice, gleefully told me two years ago that they have been moving back their fence every year and have been stealing land.

But it's ok because their neighbours are elderly and haven't noticed. 😱

They live in the country side and you cannot see the neighbours house from their garden. Their neighbours land covers all three sides of their house and is a wooded area. They have tripled the size of their garden.

They were smug when they mentioned that if they used the land for a certain number of years the rightful owners couldn't take it back due to some law.

After this conversation I can't see them in the same light and now every time I meet up with them I realise they just aren't good people. I also feel so guilty knowing this and not doing anything.

I also know that either at the end of this year or some point next year the time will have passed that the neighbours can't do anything.

I am considering sending them an anonymous letter. Should I? I could find them on google maps. A big part of me doesn't want to get involved then another just wants justice to prevail.

I also live abroad. So any letter sent from my country, should the neighbours show it to said family members, would obviously be from me. I don't want this family to know how I feel as it would cause chaos with the rest of the family. I would rather make it anonymous. How would I do this? Would this give me bad or good karma?

YANBU : Write the letter
YaBU : Don't get involved

I actually thought it was seven years, not twelve. There was something in law which said that if you ‘tend’ land then it becomes yours after a certain length of time has passed. But I think the OP’s relatives are way off the mark, because that law referred to common or public land, not land owned by someone else - that’s just plain theft.

A couple of people have brought this up. I live in the area and I can assure you that the local community has come together and are co-operating with the police as much as possible. Trying to find a link to a piece in the Liverpool Echo carrying an article from Merseyside police thanking people for their efforts.

Shouldn't you be getting ready for school?

The decent people are, the scum aren't

Human greed knows no bounds!

Your relatives are obnoxious - lots of people like them, sadly - def message the neighbours... but having looked this up, tge process is they have to apply to register the land in their name. The land registry asks the owners if that is acceptable and if they oppose it, their application to register tge land in their name will fail, thry'll need to move their fence and put the land back to where it should be. They can just sell up with fencing where it is and expect that will go through OK, it won't.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land/practice-guide-4-adverse-possession-of-registered-land

I voted YABU. What they’re doing is intensely wrong, but at the risk of what sounds like a potentially almighty family bust up if it ever comes out that it was you who told on them, and the fact that they stand next to zero chance of holding on to this land when either property ends up on the market, I probably wouldn’t bother telling on them.
if you actually do care about doing what’s right, you should probably tell them directly that you disagree with what they’re doing. But that’s just me.

YANBU - Isn't it awful when you hear stories about old people being abused just because they are old and vulnerable? I would definitely be sending that anonymous letter so at least they can be made aware of what's going on.

The thing that people are missing is the possibility of a dispute which would stop any sale, and how massive the Land Registry back-log is. Last time I dealt with a property dispute the LR weren't willing to make a decision when the parties disagreed and it ended in expensive litigation which lasted a couple of years. Yes, AP is much harder to aquire now, but it's not that easy to fight off a claim.

Some people are suggesting that an application might be made for AP, the owners say "no, that's not true" and then it all just goes away. Firstly it takes months for it to even get to that stage. Then months again to move to dispute resolution.

Alternatively if conveyancing is ongoing and the boundary discrepancy is spotted for example by a developer, it then again takes litigation to get the fences moved and some sort of satisfactory resolution to allow the sale to proceed.

If it was my grandparents who needed to sell to downsize or move to sheltered accomodation I wouldn't want them to be stuck for ages when it could start to be resolved now.

OP - go on the LR website and firstly find out if the property is registered. If not then it's much more at risk. If it is get a copy of the register and write to the registered proprietor. You've then done the right thing.

Op listen to the poster who suggested making an anon Facebook profile and posting on the local community Facebook page. Then everyone will know and something will be done.

This is not a planning issue.

Do it! Send it via Pc2Paper.co.uk

No, I would be ashamed of the relatives doing the stealing. I would be proud my child was standing up for vulnerable people and preventing them being bullied out of their property.

The snitch thing is such bollocks. I am from Northern Ireland and I still remember when the troubles were in full flow. One of the things that helped maintain that hideous time was people being afraid of being a "tout". One of the biggest aids to moving to peace was setting up the confidential telephone, where people could give anonymous tip offs. It allowed people to stop terrorist attacks and save lives. It was backed up with loads of ads encouraging people to use the phone number and break the cycle of violence. I still remember the ugly kid Joe one that made me cry every time I saw it.

People not speaking out allows terrible things to happen, people speaking up allows justice to happen. Which world do you want to live in?

Do you know someone in the country who could send the letter? Pre-printed envelope etc.

Genius move- do this!

A great post from @Leftbutcameback , this bit should resonate with everyone

"If it was my grandparents who needed to sell to downsize or move to sheltered accomodation I wouldn't want them to be stuck for ages when it could start to be resolved now."

All of this.

if you relatives felt there was land the elderly couple were not using and were not interested in, they could have approached them and offered to buy some of the land. But they didn’t. They are stealing it. Disgraceful.
And as the quoted post shows, this is not a victimless crime. It could have very real, practical, stressful and costly implications.

I'm curious as to how far you'd go on this view.

Would you keep your snout out if you saw someone stealing?
If you saw someone being kidnapped? Or raped? Or killed?
Child abuse ok to you too, wouldn't get involved in that either?
I assume you'd also keep your snout out if someone committed a crime against you? I mean they could have a reason for doing it, you don't know. Maybe they need your money or house more than you.

Or are you just the typical unintelligent person who just wants others to think they are cool?

Could I call this into crime stoppers?

Find out the elderly people's relatives and inform them anonymously.

OP - you must let the rightful land owners/land registry know.

This is theft, pure and simple, and off an old, vulnerable couple. PPs saying, "Don't grass," would your opinions still be the shame if OP had come on and said that her relatives had stolen thousands from a vulnerable elderly person's bank account?
That is essentially what the relatives are doing here - they are hoping to 'steal' land for their own benefit, and I'd imagine hoping the extra land will add value to their own property (which would equate to cash if they ever sold their property/the land on).

Surely this is a wind up. Are we really talking about moonpig and crime stoppers for this particular issue? OP has also ignored those posters telling her that the law of adverse possession has changed and they will not be able to claim the land - when they try, the rightful owners will be notified.

OP I do hope you write to the neighbours anonymously as suggested upthread, as well as telling the Land Registry (which is important). To get the address of the elderly couple, another idea might be to enter into a retail website, say Next or Boots or whatever as if you are going to buy something, and put in your CFs postcode for delivery. That will come up with a list of the other addresses nearby. It should be possible to identify the address of the elderly neighbours, and it could be checked with planning or LR maps as I suggested earlier in the thread.

I agree with@Starsinyoureyes13.

Mind you, presumably the CFs' land is registered and possibly the elderly couple's isn't? If both were unregistered, you might get away with clawing a bit, but surely the fact that their garden has tripled in size might take a bit of explaining.

I just wish we could see the follow up post in a couple of years where they try to sell and it all goes tits up.

I would try to contact the elderly couple's relatives though.

**Ooh, ooh, or the follow up post where it's revealed the elderly couple had been dumping chemical waste on the land, or it's full of Japanese knotweed.

I'm afraid there is only one option OP - I know you feel uncomfortable but Moonpig, the council, Land Reg, and Crime Stoppers are all the wrong ones. You just need to find their address and send them an anonymous note. There are plenty of ways to do that. Start with the Land Reg website and good luck!