Disability And Abortion: The Hardest Choice CHANNEL 4

[Wouldloveanother]

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11155443/DOMINIC-LAWSON-Doctors-stop-pushing-mothers-aborting-disabled-babies.html

I’m planning on watching this in the next few days, but I’m getting increasingly concerned about the amount of anti-choice activity going on under the guise of ‘disability equality’.

I'm all for equality. Abortion should be available on demand, up to full term, for all women, in all circumstances. End of.

Would that make these campaigners happy?

I doubt that would satisfy their goal. Which I fear is less about ‘equality of the law’ and more about forcing women to carry disabled children in order to validate their own lives.

All I know is that when I was pregnant with a much wanted child at 37 I was told "don't come crying to me if you have a disabled child " by my GP because I'd declined an amino to test for Down syndrome.

She told me I had a very HIGH risk of Downs - 1 in 200. Gave me leaflets outlining the LOW risk of miscarriage from the amino of 0.5%.

I'm mathematically literate. 1 in 200 = 0.5%

The pressure is there.

I don’t think people should be made to feel forced into making a decision either way. But the options should all be on the table so families can make sure they are making the right decision for them with our judgement or pressure.

@catsrus i don’t doubt it is but surely the answer to that is education rather than changing the law to restrict women’s choices?

I am the mother of a severely disabled child. We were given the choice in pregnancy at 20 weeks and again when he was 3 months old & still on a ventilator.

we CHOSE to be his parents. It wasn’t a hard decision for us as we were financially secure, owned our home, lived near the hospital and in our early 30s so more mature.

It should be a choice. This life is so hard and the fact is it is not for everyone. We’ve never been happier now he is more medically stable we have the loveliest life. But it has been tough. If I was single, younger, broke etc this would have been a horrific life for all of us.

also if I was pregnant again with the same diagnosis for the baby I would not proceed with the pregnancy. I couldn’t put another child through that first year in ICU again

Education has to be backed up by meaningful support by society.
All legislation on abortion time limits etc needs to be equal for all women and the unborn child they are carrying. I’d support abortion to term, for any woman, for any reason, but recognise lower limits would be more acceptable to many people.
No children should be screened out for any reason, including disability.

Why is it that the rules are different if the baby has a disability?

Just to add the reason for declining an amniocentesis (this was in the days before more sophisticated testing ) was because DH and I had talked about it and decided that we would not abort if it was Downs anyway. I had experience (through a family member) with DS and I knew it was something we could deal with.

Because it takes time for some conditions or complications to become apparent.

I am also suspect about the end goals of disability campaigners who think that access to abortion should be restricted.

Our current technology doesn't allow women to make an informed choice to be a parent of a disabled child within the usual parameters of termination.

If this is a matter of even stevens, and given that I don't think that women are hurt-feelings defender womb carriers, then I'd also push for an extension of abortion rights for anyone up to 40 weeks before I nipped around the edges of current abortion access.

I really hate to stray from the main topic, but how on earth does anybody actually sit there and say they want abortion to be given up to full term, no medical reason needed?! Seriously, do you ever think about what that would entail? How would you physically kill a baby that would be born happily and healthily at that point? Leave it on a hillside? Wring its neck?

I can't fathom how a baby is the most wonderful, important, innocent creature on one side of his/her mother's vagina, but absolutely fine to kill on the other side. How far into labour or birth would you say it's OK to kill it?

I'm still in favour of some abortion being allowed, but the idea of killing a 39 week gestated baby is ridiculous.

As much as anyone talks about rights, we should talk about responsibility and duty too. And that's where the serious and difficult ethical questions come in with disability and abortion, because as pp have said, it's a hell of a responsibility to cope with.

There's obviously an agenda to restrict women's choices. Better support for families caring for disabled children would be needed to give people more of a choice but that's not what it's about it's it.

But that alone will show why it would be such a rare occurrence and not without reason. People wouldn’t make such a choice on a whim.

I thought the documentary was really good. I was in tears over the part where Ruth Madeley talks to a woman who had an abortion so she wouldn't give birth to a child with the condition Ruth has. It must have been an incredibly difficult conversation.

I noticed that the documentary never mentioned getting rid of the disability discrimination by allowing all abortions for all women without any time limits.

Ah I see that makes sense.

I guess they could increase the limits for all babies.

Surprised, and relieved, that the comments below the article all seem to be mostly pro-choice

Yes I don't think many people would choose that option unless they had thought about it and struggled with it.

Lots of disabilities are not picked up ,prior to birth my son has severe autism and learning disabilities, he also has an underlying rare chromosome disorder,which isn't screened for prenatally.

People talking about abortion until 40 weeks - do you mean induction at the point the mum chooses and then treating the baby the same as any other baby would be treated?
Or do you mean medically ending the babies life prior to induction or refusing treatment after birth and seeing if the baby survives or not (if the latter then at what point would they be classed as having rights to treatment?)

People talking about abortion until 40 weeks - do you mean induction at the point the mum chooses and then treating the baby the same as any other baby would be treated?
Or do you mean medically ending the babies life prior to induction or refusing treatment after birth and seeing if the baby survives or not (if the latter then at what point would they be classed as having rights to treatment?)

Agreed! It’s the Daily Mail so I read them with one eye closed, but luckily even their readers seem to grasp the basics of a woman’s choice. And that Dominic Lawson should keep his nose out.

@SlagathaChristie I totally agree with you. If a baby is viable, able to live unaided, then it's horrific to abort. The emotional trauma to all involved must be horrendous.

I'm all for abortion, I've had one, however it's not something to be done lightly, my abortion has stayed with me for the last 26 years. Mine was at 8 weeks, I couldn't imagine the mental pain if my baby had been full term.

Surely, the majority of disabilities are detected earlier and around the 20 week mark, if the mother chose to abort then, the featus isn't viable.

I’m fully pro choice and would also support extending the limit, but accept that’s unlikely to happen.

This is an intensely personal decision for women and shouldn’t be made by anyone else.

Often it isn't a choice we had no way of knowing that my child would be disabled prior to birth ,he's 12 now and obviously I love him to bits it's hard to imagine a life without him in it ,but not all disabilities can be picked up.