Disability And Abortion: The Hardest Choice CHANNEL 4

[Wouldloveanother]

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11155443/DOMINIC-LAWSON-Doctors-stop-pushing-mothers-aborting-disabled-babies.html

I’m planning on watching this in the next few days, but I’m getting increasingly concerned about the amount of anti-choice activity going on under the guise of ‘disability equality’.

The vast majority of abortions in the UK take place before 10wks (89%) and almost all take place before 16wks with only 1% taking place between 16wks and 20wks.

The amount of abortions that place post-24wks is tiny - 276 in 2021.

Even if limits were removed there is nothing to indicate that this would vastly change, most women who want to end a pregnancy because they don't want it will do so as early as possible because women aren't idiots. They legally have until 24wks to abort but they still mostly opt to do it pre-10wks.

The whole "no limits" thing is a red herring though and often latched onto by pro-lifers who use it to harp on about murdering viable babies as if hoardes of women will suddenly opt to abort 39wk pregnancies despite all evidence being to the contrary.

We have lots of laws about things that don't happen particularly often. Laws don't just cover things that happen with a certain frequency.

I agree. The closest you get to depicting that kind of life is a sanitised version on home makeover or food economy programmes. The reality for many families with disabled children is horrific. And for severely disabled people without a loving family it just doesn’t bear thinking about.

Paralympians, TV actors and TV actors’ children are not representative.

This is true the narrative is usually look ar what people with disabilities can achieve
There was a brilliant series on BBC a couple of years ago however, "There she goes " about a young girl with severe learning disabilities and how her family life was portrayed, the writer based it on his own daughter who has severe learning disabilities andvis non verbal, it was very Frank, and realistic as a parent of a child with similar disabilities it made me laugh and cry ,it showed how tough it was for the family but also how the parents were just normal every day people doing there best ,there were also some very funny ,and poignant moments .

The point I was making is that it isn't possible to provide the statistics requested.

For what it's worth I think the current abortion laws in the UK should be left unchanged.

as a parent of a severely disabled adult. (caused at birth) i will ask what I like.

I have a friend with a DC who has Down's Syndrome. By all accounts he is thriving. He can walk and talk and attends mainstream school. She is very vocal about the negative attitude of the medics towards her DC. She feels more balanced information should be given.

I agree with this.

I think extending the abortion limit for all pregnancies would be so unpopular as to be ultimately harmful to the cause of women's reproductive rights.

Thank you to the pro-choice disabled poster talking about the importance of understanding/ empathising with the opposing view. It's to be expected that anti abortion campaigners will focus on late term abortion despite the low prevalence- it's the tactically obvious thing to do. But suggesting that disabled people are basically puppets when they question late term abortion of disabled foetuses is patronising and obtuse IMO. I had all the testing going and would have terminated my pregnancies in the event of a significant disability, but honestly I am not going to tell someone living with the same condition that they don't have a valid perspective in questioning that.

Yes, if you get a chance to read just one, look at ProudMo from about an hour ago.

It's a bit like the trend of minimising disabilities as "just a difference", all part of the same agenda not to mention a massive fuck you to the families who are struggling.

I have a child with a life limiting genetic disease. I would not knowingly have another child with the same condition.
If I accidentally became pregnant & found out the baby would be born with the same condition, I would have a termination.
My child who is 15 has lived experience of the condition & has said to me, in the same circumstances they would do the same.

The difference is the woman’s choice, and what she consents to being done with her body.

In terms of very late abortion what happens to her body will be identical either induction or C-section. The only difference is what is done to the baby.

Adoption has it’s own issues, and isn’t a valid choice for many.

True, but is still a possibility. I doubt legislation will change regarding late abortion. Don’t see many MPs going for it. You can’t make laws on the the basis of ‘probably wouldn’t happen’.

My stepson was born with microcephaly and if DH and I choose to have a child there is a 25% chance of our child having it too.

After speaking to my GP she said the risks were low enough that she wouldn’t tell us not to try if we want a child but if I do get pregnant they will monitor me far more closely.

As much DH loves his DS DH and I know we could not bring another child into the world with the same condition.

My DC has severe disabilities with a dire prognosis.
Life is difficult. Had to give up my career, my relationships with friends fell by the wayside, never get a full nights sleep, our world is very small. We are quite isolated. I gave it all up willingly for DC but understand why others wouldn't want this life. A life of sacrifice, society treating you like a burden and living on benefits.
What good would forcing births of disabled children on mothers do? The care system wouldn't be able to cope. That's far more cruel in my opinion.

2 further reasons they are allowed even if the foetus is healthy

1 the pregnancy places the mother's life in jeopardy

2 the pregnancy poses a risk of grave permanent injury to the mental or physical health of the mother

I think the numbers are tiny probably in single figures.

But nobody disputes terminating a healthy fetus if the mother is at risk. The hypothetical would be if it was allowed for non medical reasons.

The crucial point in this discussion is whether any baby with a disability or even a suspected disability should be afforded the same protection under the law as other unborn babies.
The current law allows abortion up to and after birth (i.e. infanticide) on the grounds of disability.

You have taken a very small chunk of what I said, out of context, and responded.

As you will see from my second paragraph, I am pro choice. My first paragraph was responding to another poster, who I agreed with, that having an abortion at full term must be horrendous for all involved.

Your quip about being 16 is ridiculous, clearly anyone who is born has a right to life. So unless you can make a clear and concise argument, sod off

I thought the programme was fair. It covered both sides. We do need guidance through laws to these emotive issues. Personally I would prefer an earlier cut off date for choice (no disability) with a 2 week decision period for medical conditions identified outside of this general time period

Abortion after birth?

@Annieisalright

Disability is such a wide spectrum of situations. Nobody is going to question the morality of ending a pregnancy after 24 weeks which is not compatible with life. Edwards or other life limiting conditions, yes, ds starts to get contentious, a cleft lip? A club foot? So what many of us think is you need to define how disabled is appropriate for abortion after 24 weeks. I don't have an answer, it's more that once a foetus is potentially able to be born I'm uncomfortable with abortion unless exceptional eg not compatible with life

I presume that is what they are labelling the traumatic processes of withdrawing care when it is obvious a newborn won’t survive

Ah right thank you