To ask what the rest of (geographic) Europe are doing differently?

[CanIJustAskAnotherStupidQuestion]

I have friends and colleagues in Nordics, Spain, Italy, Germany and they all keep asking what the hell is going on in Britain, with double digit inflation and 80% increases in fuel costs. They don’t seem to be feeling all of this to the same extent.

So why is it happening here, and not so much elsewhere? I know that e.g. France hasn’t been hit with fuel bills for consumers because EDF is nationalised (but presumably that means they will get hit in taxes). But what about elsewhere?

@MsPincher
"Of course they should enforce minimum wage laws better but public sector is often inefficient."

The enforcement of immigration and minimum wage laws falls under the Home Office, specifically the Border Force, and HMRC.

You'll recognise both of these as being amongst the government agencies that have been cut and underfunded by May, Johnson and now Rees-Mogg. Far from being "inefficient" they are totally ineffective if they don't have sufficient personnel and funding required in order to do the job.

Am in Belgium - huge energy rises, petrol, food and so on. The only thing here is public transport is cheaper (€12 for an 18-25 yr old for a year on bus network) , and we have amazing health care! Our energy costs have always been higher than UK ime.

@Havanananana
I confess I thought you said that last one was behind a paywall so I didn't open it, but it turns out to be another guardian one.

It says...
Migrant rights experts said the potential to be trapped in debt bondage put workers at risk of essentially forced labour.

So there's potential for it but it's not happened. In fact there's nothing in the report to say anything about them being bound to the agent. One person says they put their land up for collateral. All the complaints are about overcharging. Which is clearly wrong but they're being paid the going rate by their employers here.

And you also say that the govt is not investigating when it's quite clear from that report that it is being investigated, both here and in Indonesia.

@MsPincher
They’re not indentured as there is no valid debt as you point out in your post above.

If a criminal gang has forced you to pay £5,000 up front or offer your house as security in order to get the job in the UK, the debt is very real and will be enforced.

we are not « importing indentured servants from Asia » at all. There are some criminals carrying on criminal activity in respect of the (very few) people who come to the uk on a seasonal worker visa. It’s not at all what you said.

I wrote "indentured labour" not "servants" and the articles quoted confirm that these people are paying off a debt, illegal or otherwise - the very definition of "indenture". Whether it is a few hundred or a few thousand workers is immaterial - it is happening in a field, care home or factory near you and is both morally and legally unacceptable and the businesses employing these workers are just as complicit as the "agents".

We knew 20 years ago we needed to invest in nuclear power. We didn’t. The French did.

HMRC enforces the minimum wage (as we are all aware). HMRC have their challenges but are not at all « totally ineffective » Rather they are a huge and very expensive organisation. I would stick with inefficient.

Don’t be silly. You made claims that « we » are importing indentured workers from Asia. In actual fact we are not at all as you are well aware.

There are a lot of different safeguards and laws to stop the sort of criminal activity alleged in those articles you posted (which were reported and at most affected a few hundred people) but of course you can’t stop every crime.

Am in Belgium - huge energy rises, petrol, food and so on. The only thing here is public transport is cheaper (€12 for an 18-25 yr old for a year on bus network) , and we have amazing health care! Our energy costs have always been higher than UK ime.

This is my experience too. Energy is going up everywhere but is often mitigated in other countries by the fact that other things are not so expensive. In the UK everything seems to be so much more expensive and always has been.Transport, food and household shopping, house prices, eating out, places like theme parks and zoos are also extortionate compared to what you would pay in other countries. When all of this accumulates, and you add a massive price rise in fuel and energy to the mix it’s going to tip things over the edge very easily.

It was nu Labour under Tony Blair that utterly failed the country in so many ways. Unfortunately the Tories have failed to correct any of the mistakes.

Lest we forget the abysmal mess that Labour created - refusing to build nuclear power stations, creating a low pay culture with tax credits, failing to invest in any infrastructure for this country, selling off the gold reserves, the illegal war. But hey, a few people got some freebies so never mind the long term decline of the country.

If a criminal gang has forced you to pay £5,000 up front

First if all, I don't see any mention in any of those articles that anyone was forced to come here

If they've paid up front, there's no debt.

offer your house as security in order to get the job in the UK, the debt is very real and will be enforced.

If they staked their house on it, there's debt but nowhere do I see that they're being forced to work for nothing to work off that debt. Why would they? They'd just take the house and sell it.

It's clear that people are being overcharged by recruitment agencies and that's wrong. But I can't see why that makes them indentured.

In the UK everything seems to be so much more expensive and always has been

This just isn't true. The UK has had the probably cheapest food in Europe for a long time. And our energy costs have been lower than or at least comparative to other EU countries.
I guess if you believe things that aren't true, though, it will skew your view of the country overall.

You forgot Labour’s ridiculous PFI debt, which means the taxpayer is paying over £300 billion for infrastructure projects worth £54 billion.

I'm on holiday in France now and today paid just over 2 euro per litre of diesel (gazole). What is the capped price?

insulation is another thing.

friend lives in austria and had to sell an older relative's old former farmhouse.
they were not allowed to sell as residential dwelling unless the windows were replaced with triple glazing. the walls were apparently 'up to code' already due to the way it was built.

This. No Boots meal deals, pub meals or Pizza express vouchers in most of the rest of Europe. £15 for a (standard, not posh) burger and chips in a pub here, at least £7 for a pint, and cheap sandwiches simply do not seem to exist. Energy is more expensive but houses are better insulated, so at least people don't use as much of it as they would in a standard property in the UK.

This isn't true. Where I live I can eat out in a nice restaurant , 3 course meal for €9 including the wine

We eat out most days. Could not afford to do that in England

The public transport is really cheap and the government have made trains free until December.

Petrol prices are capped since the Russia saga so communing is cheaper

Some countries in Europe are more expensive but the wages are vastly superior to those in the UK. So it's relative

I have family in Spain who have lived there for 40+ years. Spain has been on its arse for decades. Unemployment through the roof and because so many of its residents like to avoid paying tax wherever possible, no money for reinvesture. Look at the homes which are quarter built and then left decaying for years because nothing happens with them. Rents might be capped now but have been so out of touch of majority of people for years that they haven't been able to afford housing unless they have support from family. Water bills have been significantly expensive for many years- much more so than in the U.K. the price of oil heating had trebled 5 years ago so god knows what it is now.

Yes, train travel is cheap but Spain has significantly worse problems than the U.K. it's a long way from all hearts and roses.

The drought impact on Spain looked horrendous on the news last night. Surely that’s going to impact their economy

This thread is about how other countries are responding to the energy crisis, but it has, as usual, descended into a competitive google frenzy to find any fact at all, relevant or more often than not, completely unconnected, in order to defend the "honour" of the UK government by highlighting any old random and specific way in which any other country might do something less well than Britain, borne out of what... guilt about voting choices? Brexit humility? Patriotism?

It is coming down to what meal deals you can get in supermarkets, ffs.There are 44 countries in Geographical Europe. There will always be something someone else is doing better and worse. Nowhere is Utopia.

You're correct - Germany already has 80% of it's gas for the autumn/winter stored.

The EU is looking to introduce emergency measures, including decoupling gas from electricity which will change the pricing system and reducing consumption.... So working together to find a solution to a global problem. Not sure what links, if any, the UK has to the EU energy market anymore. .

www.ft.com/content/02f848fc-3b80-4ddc-ba4f-26109d79db89

Also, lots of talk of rationing, making business and the rich carrying the brunt and tooking everything to avoid unfeasibly large bills landing on consumer doorsteps.

Climate change is as big a deal on the continent in terms of media coverage, harvests have been severely impacted by the summer drought and fires and this will also have a knock on effect on the UK food costs.

@loveisagirlnameddaisy you need to shop around: diesel is 1.8 e in my local supermarket.
More expensive on motorways and in garages.
Relief is targeted in France: those on lower incomes get fuel relief.

Didn't the French energy minister say that subsidies it provides are not sustainable and costs for all consumers will rise this winter?

He said that next year the prices may have to rise but they will be "contained".

Yes, the 4% restriction is until the end of the year only and the general narrative is, it is going to be a tough winter economically.

I suspect they may not put up energy prices by much, but the fires, drought, floods will have a big influence on food prices.