To ask what the rest of (geographic) Europe are doing differently?

[CanIJustAskAnotherStupidQuestion]

I have friends and colleagues in Nordics, Spain, Italy, Germany and they all keep asking what the hell is going on in Britain, with double digit inflation and 80% increases in fuel costs. They don’t seem to be feeling all of this to the same extent.

So why is it happening here, and not so much elsewhere? I know that e.g. France hasn’t been hit with fuel bills for consumers because EDF is nationalised (but presumably that means they will get hit in taxes). But what about elsewhere?

My thoughts exactly!

I don't think it's anti EU as such, more pointing out both sides of the coin.

State subsidies have to be paid for by taxation, it's not a magic bullet. Our public debt is enormous so you have to draw the line somewhere. The next generation isn't likely to be enjoying the sunny economic uplands so who do you choose to make the later sacrifice of subsidies now?

We have lots of friends in Switzerland, Austria and Germany as DH used to work for a company in Berlin that covers the territory. I think it depends where in those countries they live, but it always feels like their quality of life is just a lot higher, so even if bills are harder to pay life is still so much nicer, if that makes sense. Less of a grind, just general clean air, clean water, lots of nature, more work life balance, that kind of thing. Some of them live in areas where renewable energy is higher too. And they all have wood burners and are used to bloody cold winters so just seem more set up for this kind of thing.

I almost wept the other day when I read an article about how we shouldn't be so squeamish about drinking sewage water and all the raw sewage being pumped into our local beaches - it's that kind of nightmare on top of the bills and everything else that just makes it all so much worse. I don't think that's a common thing in other countries. I think also they have better care for old people where you can bugger off for a 2 week spa break to just get your health back if you've been a bit ill. In fact it might even be mandatory.

Obviously I'm sure in inner cities in any European countries it must be grim like it would be anywhere, I guess like anywhere countryside is better than cities etc.

State subsidies have to be paid for by taxation, it's not a magic bullet. Our public debt is enormous so you have to draw the line somewhere. The next generation isn't likely to be enjoying the sunny economic uplands so who do you choose to make the later sacrifice of subsidies now?

UK public debt is enormous, but then UK taxation is low relative to many other EU countries. The government raises too little in tax, but instead of increasing taxes to cover the shortfall, successive governments have gone into denial and have borrowed and managed the money supply in an effort to hide the size of the problem.

At some point in time the government and population is going to be forced to confront the truth that you can't have Rolls-Royce levels of public service (which the UK doesn't have anyway) if you're only willing to pay for a Dacia.

Truss's idea that she can cut taxes and still maintain the current levels of service, poor though they are compared with those in many other countries, makes no financial or social sense.

I was very curious about France, having just visited Paris and Provence. No sign of COL crisis - restaurants were full to the brim, high streets full of (mostly independent shops). It was in very stark contrast to the UK. There is clearly heavy investment in police and transport eg aside from ticket inspectors, there were 4 transport police on my local train to Marseille.

Yes they generally start off as anti U.K. then posters correct or add different view points

There are ups and downs to all. I know what I want but others are looking for something different which is fine.

The experiences that you mention about severe negative equity, persistent lack of disposable income and significant changes to the economy don't match mine - I grew up in Spain, have friends and family there, in different regions, and visit often.

Whilst I don't think the way to tackle the current crisis is through subsidies, posters who criticise the "plaster" or "pay now and be bailed later" approach might be interested in reading the "20 years of the euro - winners and losers" report. It shows that despite widespread perceptions the euro has massively benefitted Germany at the expense of other counties (mainly Italy and France).

London is also full of tourists - although those stranded due to train strikes might rethink future trips.

What would you expect to see? People wearing signs? If you are out and about this BH weekend, I’m sure you would think there was coat of living crisis in UK either.

This, this and more of this!

There is an EU-wide agreement to (try to?) cut power usage by 15% by doing things like lowering heating in public buildings and asking shops to turn off lightings (signs/window displays) at night. Switzerland is in on this too, not sure about other EEA countries

The UK needs to do this too. Too many businesses still leaving their lights on overnight. Even if they can currently afford it, it's a moral imperative to save energy as well to avoid running out this winter.

I almost wept the other day when I read an article about how we shouldn't be so squeamish about drinking sewage water

people have joked for decades that water in London passes through its residents many times - it actually tastes quite decent compared with the water in other areas as well!

‘Enormous’ relative to what? Yet again more anecdotes without any data.

Here are some numbers on debt to GDP ratio:
Greece 193%
Italy 150%
Protugal 127%
Spain 118%
France 112%
UK 96%
Germany 69%

For resentence US is 127% but is a special case because everything is traded in dollars so US has that leverage.

I thought we already drank recycled water ?!! It's perfectly safe. With climate change we will have to fresh water will be running out.

Shops switching off their lights won’t make your energy cheaper.

As has been explained many many many times on the various threads about this topic, you can’t control the price of something your don’t produce, or produce enough of. You can only subsidize it.

Central London is packed, tourism type stuff included

What is your suggestion for what the government should do? If we aren’t going to fix the cap or give handouts to people, then what are the other options that you think will go far enough to deal with the problem and stop people’s health deteriorating and the economy from getting trashed because people aren’t spending the money they don’t have.

Truss’s proposed income tax & VAT cuts are woefully inadequate and benefit the rich while doing almost nothing for the poor. I get that at the moment she needs to play to a very small group of Tory voters who are genuinely terrible people but we are facing a winter of power outages and people having to chose between heating and eating. Even those who would normally be considered reasonably OK are going to struggle this winter and the government are missing in action. They have been since January when it became quite clear that they needed a plan.

Truss's idea that she can cut taxes and still maintain the current levels of service, poor though they are compared with those in many other countries, makes no financial or social sense.
Yes, the Tories' big idea is to cut inefficiency. That's being done by reducing the income of government and local government departments, expecting them to make up the shortfalls from things like business rates. But at the same time, those business rates are falling. The upshot is that all the things that might make a difference like nurses or crime reduction programmes are going. And the government has clung to power long enough that the effects are now being felt. We've got a mountain of social problems as well as Brexit, Covid and general recession problems. The social problems aren't going away any time soon.

I know from friends that things aren't great in Germany - they don't seem to be doom mongering, though.

I found this when I lived in Germany. Obviously you have SM and more ‘tabloid’ type newspapers and shows that are always a bit OTT but in general mainstream news is reported in a very ‘matter of fact’ kind of way with little use of emotive language, it’s also a lot more varied so they don’t linger on one news item for ages eeking out every last drop of drama. I certainly had a level headed approach to current affairs when I was living there. After watching the news in the UK you always feel a bit on high alert, even about the most basic things - remember just a few weeks ago the massive panic build up to our 2 day heatwave? In Germany I imagine it would have been a brief ‘temperatures will be expected to reach 38 degrees on Tuesday in many areas, with some isolated areas reaching up to 40. Experts advise caution and taking measures such as x y and z. Next news item…’ Here it was news item after news item after news item about the impeding hot weather. It was crazy and did send many into a pointless panic.
In the UK the manner of reporting and the sensationalism is more akin to how the US media operates.

I agree @BeanieTeen All the sensationalist news in the UK is very, very irritating. Everything is dramatised and over emotive.

I've just been listening to the R4 lunchtime news and currently affairs programme. It was a drama-fest largely fuelled by the presenter ramping up the hand wringing and emotive language. She even referred to an interviewers children as her 'your babes' at one point just to squeeze out more sympathy and drama 🙄😂

Is that because Luxembourg does not contribute to the EU budget but one of the big recipients ie they can afford it?

Large corporate companies. They are buying up property from small investors. Limited, so not affected by the tax changes and likely Tory mates like other big businesses, so will be exempt form any future changes too. We are essentially seeing the incorporation of the rental market they way we've seen incorporation of, well, everything else. In future you'll rent from a big chain I imagine.

This, in a nutshell. Govt debt to GDP is high in France, Belgium and Italy. You can't borrow indefinitely, at some point that has to be paid back. Or you can raise taxes, but who is going to vote in a government that proposes a tax rate increase? Ultimately, every country is going to feel the pinch, there's no way around it. You can pay now, or pay later, but you will have to pay.

Absolutely this. But what I can’t really understand is why this is the case - where there low level of taxation in the UK compared to other countries what I find really interesting is the public attitude - I think in many euro countries paying tax is not really seen as such a huge negative. People don’t love it but they’d choose to pay more and have better services for the good of everyone. We don’t choose this in the UK. Why is that? I wonder if it has its roots in the class system, maybe our culture is to always try and get more/more wealth so we don’t want to share if we can avoid it whereas in many other cultures it’s seen as more ‘normal’ to share more of what you have. I don’t know if that’s really correct, it makes some logical sense I feel, but I find this point really interesting. We consistently vote Tory.. we know for most people that’s a crap choice then why do we do it? And ok our system is skewed with First past the post but we obviously don’t care enough to change it or we would have. X

@OrangeDuck i don’t recognise that description of Spain. I’m in my mid 30s and of DS’ class’ parents (state school, class of 20) half own their homes including us, 4 rent privately, 1 rents from the council and 5 bought affordable housing from the council (you buy at a very very low price but you can only sell on for the council stipulated price and not profit from it.)

I am in a wealthy area of Spain though, Unemployment rate here is 8.8%. Youth unemployment is higher but they’re all at university or in VET (where they don’t pay tuition) and living at home.