To ask what the rest of (geographic) Europe are doing differently?

[CanIJustAskAnotherStupidQuestion]

I have friends and colleagues in Nordics, Spain, Italy, Germany and they all keep asking what the hell is going on in Britain, with double digit inflation and 80% increases in fuel costs. They don’t seem to be feeling all of this to the same extent.

So why is it happening here, and not so much elsewhere? I know that e.g. France hasn’t been hit with fuel bills for consumers because EDF is nationalised (but presumably that means they will get hit in taxes). But what about elsewhere?

I haven't heard anyone complaining about gas/electricity yet (went to visit relatives in Italy in August) but general COL seems to be increasing there too...a friends nursery is now €500 a month in Milan (most I've ever heard an Italian nursery costing) and another friends rental contract on her house finished (also Milan) and the landlord wanted to put the price up from 1300€ a month to €2000 instead (they left the house and bought in the suburbs instead).

It’s like we no lessons were learned from 14 years of quantative easing, or the inflationary impact of locking up healthy people, paying them to do nothing while stoking demand for goods that are weren’t being produced. Nationalising energy and giving out freebies like free train travel now is nothing short of bribery to people who refuse to understand how the economy works. Nationalisation means you pay in the future. Just like lockdowns were now free and we are paying now through inflation.

I agree. There's no magic money tree. As hard as it is, do we want to subsidise the cost of energy? And add to the debt mountain?

Inflation is a similar issue. If everyone has pay rises at the rate of inflation, it makes it even higher. That stores up major economic problems which have a knock-on impact on employment amongst other things.

It's pretty bleak at the moment and I understand the concern about being able to afford to heat the house etc. But if we take short term populist measures, it's going to get even worse and be a longer-term issue.

Where I live in Spain there is lots of work , my adult children have also moved out here and are in good jobs It's area dependant. Same is in any country. Difficult to find work in rural wales/Scotland too.

I went to Greece recently and they had power cuts all the time food was also more expensive in supermarkets and the average income is lower petrol was also more expensive than home. I think some people like to insult the UK all the time but don't realise things are also bad abroad.

That's over simplified and misleading

They ran an illegal election and used illegal activities. They were arrested for breaking the law

It’s industry dependant, not only area dependant. There are certain sectors that are still running way behind some of their European counterparts. But that’s the same in most countries, although pronounced in Spain.

It’s not misleading. Spain’s ranking for corruption is well documented by transparency international. This is data, not untested anecdotes.

It’s not the same as in any country. At least by Eurozone standards.

As the data has been shared previously upthread, Spain has 12.5% unemployment and youth unemployment runs at 25%. It makes the economy weaker and less able to deal with global shocks. These are real numbers, not opinions.

👏
The older I get the more I agree with this. I don't want everything subsidised for my generation so that our children can pay for it later on. It's bad enough they will have huge student debt to contend with.

Ah but European kids don’t have student debt @BloodyHellKen ;-)

I was watching Euro news last week and it said some european countries were heading for recession.

I think everywhere is pretty bad, it just that the UK loves to trumpet misery on the news...hence i watch Euro news and CNN regularly

@sst1234
The fact that we are applauding any country for giving freebies and nationalising energy that it doesn’t produce (thereby subsidising it) shows a complete lack of understanding of the economy works.

EDF does produce the energy that it sells - and it sells it to the French market at below international market price (i.e. it could sell at a higher price into the international market), but not below the cost of production. Subsidising vital services (energy, transport, healthcare, infrastructure etc.) is the way to ensure that everyone is able to afford these services regardless of their circumstances.

"Nationalising energy and giving out freebies like free train travel now is nothing short of bribery to people who refuse to understand how the economy works. Nationalisation means you pay in the future."

You're only describing one version of "the economy." Nationalisation, or alternatives such as mutually-owned entities or co-operatives, mean that any "profits" generated are retained by the taxpayers or the consumer/owners rather than being creamed off by investors. Currently in the UK, the £400 fuel payments will go directly into the pockets of the investors (often overseas companies, thus removing money from the UK economy) rather than into investment in storage facilities, generating capacity or environmental improvements. Nationalisation (or mutualisation) does not necessarily mean that "you pay in the future" - done well it can mean that consumers benefit in the future as the "profits" are not skimmed off.

The free (or more correctly, low cost) train travel is also a direct benefit to the users as the infrastructure investment has already been made. The marginal cost of transporting one more passenger, or even 100 more passengers, is minimal - the train runs whether it carries 50 passengers or 150 passengers, so the fixed cost is the same. For the individual passenger it means a cost saving; for the environment it represents a reduction of pollution; for the government it means that the individual person might be able to keep their job (and therefore not need to claim benefits), or not demand such a high pay rise, thus keeping inflation down.

The free (or more correctly, low cost) train travel is also a direct benefit to the users as the infrastructure investment has already been made. The marginal cost of transporting one more passenger, or even 100 more passengers, is minimal - the train runs whether it carries 50 passengers or 150 passengers, so the fixed cost is the same. For the individual passenger it means a cost saving; for the environment it represents a reduction of pollution; for the government it means that the individual person might be able to keep their job (and therefore not need to claim benefits), or not demand such a high pay rise, thus keeping inflation down.

Spot on. Being in favour of such measures doesn’t mean people don’t understand ‘the economy’.

As usual on MN such threads turn into anti EU ones. It’s tiresome.

I can't understand it all. I can't understand why someone hasn't said to Truss and Sunak: why can France Capp and we can't? What are you. Actually going to DO?

@QuentininQuarantino whether European children have student debt is immaterial. Our children in England have student debt and that is what I am referring to.

In Sweden many (most?) rental properties are owned by housing corporations. And they are restricted in how much rent they are allowed to charge (although there has been some liberalisation so that for example they can charge more for new builds than for older properties, but they can't just charge whatever they want).

There's just not really a buy to let sector here. In fact, if you own an apartment / leasehold property you can usually only rent it out for 1-2 years maximum, after that you either have to move back in or sell it. Freehold houses can usually be let out for as long as the owner wants, but I still don't think there are as many BtL houses as in the UK.

I know that, I am saddled with an enormous one.

I just mean that although it might inform your own politics, it isnt going to be as big a consideration for a European voter.

The future does look bleak for our DC, especially with FOM gone.

I was in Luxembourg recently, where all public transport has been made completely free for environmental reasons (organised before the energy crisis I think). The infrastructure there was excellent. It was wonderful and strange to just get on a bus or train without a ticket. Of course Luxembourg is a very rich/expensive country...

they do

tuition might be free.
but accomodation is often prohibitively expensive and materials have to be bought as well.
student finance in germany is means tested and if your parents earn 'too much' then you won't get it.

Just to add to the answers about "what are European countries doing differently" question, where I live in the EU there is a 356 Public Transport ticket, that gives low-cost transport on all buses and trains in the region for an entire year. 365 days travel for €365. The equivalent in the UK would a ticket that allowed travel throughout the TfL area, or Yorkshire, or South Wales or the Central Belt in Scotland for €1 (90p) a day.

tuition might be free.
but accommodation is often prohibitively expensive and materials have to be bought as well.

But the student has to live somewhere anyway, so it is not an additional cost, and it is usual to flat-share in cities in order to keep the accommodation affordable.

I may be wrong, however I believe we are running out of gas.
Supply and demand = higher prices.
Countries that are limiting costs are not doing any favours , as we all need to use less.

Yes, here in Ireland it's going to be a tough winter also. We have high inflation, and worries about energy costs, but also worries about the availability of energy. Many of those big data centres that the tech companies use are built here (with more planned) and they are huge energy drains. It's estimated they currently use up to 15% of our grid energy, which is a problem.

However, the government have tried to offset rising prices a bit, energy rebates and lowering the cost of public transport, and there will be a Cost of Living budget next month to bring in new measures. We had a tax surplus this year, so they are going to throw some money at the situation. Not sure how effective it will be in the long run.

Prices in the supermarket have definitely gone up, and people are feeling the squeeze. Filling up the oil tank this week, 500 litres is almost 700 euro, whereas a few years ago it would have been less than half that.

Our % rises are higher, because actually we have paid lower prices than most of Europe for decades. It's all relative. Historically Electricity and Gas in Italy and Spain in particular have always been much more expensive than here.