To pull DD if the class is above 30 pupils?

[unicormb]

DD is down to go to the local primary v close to our home, when we visited before the summer we were told that this reception intake was a low birth year, and that as such there would be two smaller classes of 20 pupils, where there would normally be two classes of 30. This was painted to us as a good thing, and obviously it would be... if it were true.

All the paperwork came through at the end of term and it turns out there is only going to be one reception class after all. As an ex teacher my gut is telling me that due to budgeting they've decided to stick 40 kids in one class with one teacher and an extra TA, rather than splitting across two.

I don't want my child in a class with 40 other kids, especially for her very first year of school. 30/31 I accept as the norm, but over that I think it will be very very busy and confusing for her, she only just turned 4.

Apparently the teacher is ringing me this coming week (instead of home visit) WIBU to enquire on class numbers and de-register DD if they are intending to do as I feared? DD is summer born and I could have them home with me while we wait for a better placement to come up.

You don't really know what's happening yet. They could have had a lower intake or they could have put some children in a mixed class. It could be a temporary measure due to a last-minute resignation. But if the class is 40 pupils then no YWNBU to withdraw and apply elsewhere. I hope that isn't the case as it would lead to more withdrawals and a downward spiral for this school, so I think it would be a stupid move.

I went to primary school in the 70s/80s and my old class pics and my brothers (who was one year below) show around 38 to 42 kids in the class. I was fine but I was a fairly high achiever. I do recall that certain children used to go out for help with another teacher each morning

Some children don’t count towards class size limits such as children with SEN and the school named in an EHCP, looked after children and children whose parents are in the armed forces, although I think that in order not to be counted they would have to be admitted outside of the usual admission date so wouldn’t explain why they said there were 40 children.

If there are other good schools with places nearby I would wonder whether some parents have pulled their children out meaning that there are actually fewer than 40 children and they are able to combine into one class. Or as I think has been suggested if only a handful have dropped out but there are now something like 34 children they may have decided it made more sense to have a reception class of 30 and put the 4 oldest or brightest/ most school ready in with the Year 1 class than to have two classes of under 20 kids.

I'm surprised that one school is so oversubscrbed yet there is a nearby good school with places. Why have they made too many offers on one and not enough on the other, do you know?

If that were the case my daughter would be in one of those fast streamed to year one classes, she's exceptionally bright and already flagged as gifted. I don't toot my horn about it ever, but in this case I know she would be up there in that scenario. I have another child with a learning disability so I have both sides of the coin, it isn't my ego talking.

It's undersubscribed, did you not understand my OP?

Sounds like it's seriously undersubscribed and that's what's causing the problem!

2 classes should mean 60 children.
They're undersubscribed by 20 so can't afford two teachers.

Haha then you know this could well be true, all the pps saying "it's 30 max, you must be wrong" I suspect are unaware the level of "rule bending" a school/ academy will go to.

As for my 2 cents, I wouldn't put a summer born baby in a class of 40 unless I was very confident in the school and the skill level of the LSAs. When it comes to early years there are many skilled EYFS TAs who are just as knowledgeable as QTs, some I have met over the years I would trust more than NQTs or long term supply to lead a class!

Thanks @Justfiguringitout opinions like this really help me to work it all out in my head

Our school did this a few years ago with the now Year 5s had 37 in one class, 1 teacher, a HLTA (who I'm told had the QTS), and a TA. It worked well because the summer borns spent a lot of time in Nursery and the older ones spent time in Year 1 when ready.

For Year 1 and 2 they were 2 mixed classes of Y1/2, then Year 3 onwards they've been 1 big class with FT TA support, I have friends with DC in the class and they say it works because they use the next door classroom and work in small groups.

It isn't precious to want your child's school to be following the legal rules for class sizes.

I would feel uncomfortable too - that’s alot of children in one class .

Could it be combined with the nursery class?

Still doesn't count as a teacher unless they are employed as, and therefore paid as, a teacher.
That shouldn't happen and it isn't fair on anyone!

My DD was the youngest in the year. Her school was a two form intake, 33 in her class, 32 in the other. Obviously not as many as 40 though. The only thing she struggled with was the playground as she found it a much and noisy. She was one of the brighter children in the class and it was right to send her when I did - initially she was bored but after a few months she was happy and stimulated by her work, teacher and class mates.

DD is now 21. We still know some of her class mates, and through parents of others. They were all happy going through school and whilst university isn't everything, of those that have graduated four got a first and the other a 2.1, so their grounding didn't hold them back long term. The others will graduate next year.

They can have 40 in one class if the floor area is big enough (it is worked out per X amount of m2 per child) but they need 2 qualified teachers for that many children. The ratio is 1:30. If there are more than 30 in any EYFS/KS1 class there must be an additional teacher.

I did misunderstand, I've never seen a thread about an area with more than one indersibscribed school, my brain could compute. May bad

At DDs school our reception intake is 45 as she is about to start. They are all in one reception but have 2 teachers for them. It's more of a freeflow environment and then only have teacher time during carpet time for a short amount of time from what I can gather. Perhaps they are planning something like this?

If there are 2 classes of 20 or so I think it would be reasonable to worry about them combining as one class as soon as they hit ks2 and the legal limit no longer applies, so I'd go in with my eyes open and a back up plan for year 3.

Spunds great. So how come my child was taught solely by a TA for 3 months? Rules aren’t always followed when budgets are low.

OP find out exactly what’s happening but if there is one qualified teacher for 40 kids then yes I would withdraw my child from thst school and wait a year. Summer borns fo much better as the big kid in the year anyway.

I have an august born child and deferring can bring its own problems.
Few authorities will allow it without strong justification.

Maybe they will split into two for the morning and one in one in the afternoon for supervised play.

I completely agree that rules are often broken but this is what happens when teachers have been telling everyone for years that your children are not getting properly funded education and this is the result of the majority sticking their fingers in their ears and not caring. It really shouldn't come as a surprise. That is why you child was taught by a TA for 3 months.

You can defer school starting age - you only need consent if you then want them to start in Reception when they would otherwise go into Yr One. Given the OP's child is exceptionally bright, she wouldn't suffer from skipping Reception - a good preschool could offer her far higher staff ratios and considerably greater personal attention, and if she's already a fluent reader and ahead in maths then the social and emotional learning support is what such a very small child needs from her setting, anyway.

It's likely to be something like this imo but the only way you can know for sure is to ask