To pull DD if the class is above 30 pupils?

[unicormb]

DD is down to go to the local primary v close to our home, when we visited before the summer we were told that this reception intake was a low birth year, and that as such there would be two smaller classes of 20 pupils, where there would normally be two classes of 30. This was painted to us as a good thing, and obviously it would be... if it were true.

All the paperwork came through at the end of term and it turns out there is only going to be one reception class after all. As an ex teacher my gut is telling me that due to budgeting they've decided to stick 40 kids in one class with one teacher and an extra TA, rather than splitting across two.

I don't want my child in a class with 40 other kids, especially for her very first year of school. 30/31 I accept as the norm, but over that I think it will be very very busy and confusing for her, she only just turned 4.

Apparently the teacher is ringing me this coming week (instead of home visit) WIBU to enquire on class numbers and de-register DD if they are intending to do as I feared? DD is summer born and I could have them home with me while we wait for a better placement to come up.

god you are being sooo precious

My DS's primary did this, the rule of 30 really is not that strict. Their reasoning was fair - the school was in a high turnover international community area, so KS1 was oversubscribed but KS2 had spaces.
He had 37 in his reception class (1 teacher, 2 TAs). By Y3 they were down to 25.
I did feel that it had a negative impact on him at the time but we didn't have an alternative.
If you have other options I suggest you look into it, whilst being aware that they could be below 40 by the start date with numbers falling further after that.

It's not precious at all to want a class to be a reasonable size.

Thanks, I guess I was just looking to see if I was being unreasonable for taking that course of action, should the need arise.

Because her DD is ready. I am sure the OP would defer her if she deemed it necessary. I don’t know why you find it confusing someone would send their child to school in the correct year.

Even though you shouldn’t have a class above 30 in infants, You do .
i know of a sch that has 60 kiddies in one class but has three TA and one teacher. Shouldn’t happen but it does. Ask when they call

Because she's bright. But socially very much her age.

WWYD? IF my child was going to be 1 of 40 with just 1 teacher and some extra TAs I would look to see if there were other places available elsewhere, unless the other options were even less suitable for whatever reason. It sounds as though you have several local options - I would explore those.

40 kids in a reception class wouldn't be an arrangement that would give me much confidence in the school.

That being said, I do think it is more likely that there are less children going than you think, or a combined YR/Y1 class. Try to keep calm, all might be fine!

I started school in September 1969 and we had nearly forty children in our reception class, one teacher and no TA. We were part of the bulge years. You are right about the teachers being in complete control. However, it must be better to little children to be in smaller classes as they should get more help and individual attention.

In one of my previous schools, the Reception intake was 45 and run as a free flow environment but there were two teachers with each of the children assigned to one or the other for focused work, carpet time, etc. This may be a similar situation.

There is no point worrying now: ask the question when you speak with the teacher or, if you want to feel you are doing something now, email the office FAO the head and ask the question. They are on holiday but you may find they respond this week as many staff will be back in schools preparing for the return.

If they are combining and trying to get away with it via some dodgy method, yes I'd remove my child. If they are split, I'd still be asking what the plan was for the future: will they keep them in smaller classes or will they combine them in KS2 once they don't have to split them?

A recently judged outstanding school just a little bit further away has spaces, I've just checked their website. So I def have options.

A school can go over 30 if there are successful appeals for places, it’s called a bulge class.

It could he that one of the TAs is actually a qualified teacher or qualified EYFS teacher. You can have a class of 40 if you have 2 qualified teachers. Lots of teachers have left teaching and now working as TAs.

It's also worth keeping in mind that there was no National Curriculum nor EYFS framework at this time. The expectations as to what teachers had to get children to understand, do and achieve were significantly lower. Even going back to my own education in the 90s and 2000s, what was expected of children was a lot lower. Larger class sizes were possible, in part, because of that.

You would still have to have an assigned teacher though, I assume. And the paperwork I have states that there is only one. (Budgetary reasons I expect)

Please post to let us know what the answer is!

No brainer in my view to look elsewhere if class will be more than 30.

I wouldn't send my 4 year old to school in a class of 40. Even with additional TAs.

I will. I have just emailed the headteacher the following: 'My daughter is due to start school in Reception in September. I am a little bit confused that her paperwork states there is only one Reception class this year where there would usually be two. May I ask how many students will be in this one Reception class?'

And now we wait. I may need you guys again.

My dd’s class was 34 children in reception two years ago as they made an error with the application criteria. So it can happen in certain circumstances.

I highly doubt they’d allow 40 though so I’d wait and see. If there are going to be 40 children in reception I would have huge concerns. We moved our dd as she was getting lost in a class of 34, but she has SEN and some of her former classmates are thriving. Wait till you have more information.

That's great. I hope that you find out more about the current school asap and you don't have to move your DD, but it's nice to know you have options. I certainly don't think you're being precious. The 30-child limit/guidance is there for a reason and its natural you want the best school/teaching experience you can get for your child.

To answer your earlier question, OP, if the class size is exactly 30, I believe they can only admit children in Y1 and Y2 for excepted reasons (e.g. school named on an ECHP). From Y3 onwards, they can increase the class size as they like. It's unlikely they will split and make two classes higher up the school, if the funding situation for schools stays the same.

But I wouldn't worry about that unless it actually happens- people may leave as well as join the school, and it's likely the class size will stay around the 30 mark.

I do think if the school funding situation continues as it is, we will see all sorts of dodges in infants schools to avoid having two smaller classes with two full time teachers.

This happened at my DD’s school. She was in a reception class of 44 split in two for registration and then combined throughout the day with one teacher and one HLTA. No one was chuffed and the children continue to be split now through mixed year groups, despite growing class numbers. It is odd to me that she’ll never have at least some of the same people in a class through her school career. There’s no consistency at all but so far, she’s happy. So we will see…

Re this, I assume it'll stay as a one form year group within the school. My kids are at a three form entry school with a couple of two form year groups (including the incoming reception cohort). Good school, in an area of London with v transient population.

Re your question, I'd move my child from a class of 40, but I would be really surprised if this is really whats happening. My money is on one class of 30.

This is my fear. I have just explained the scenario to DH (who doesn't really grasp such things and leaves thing like this to me generally because of my education background), but he was unequivocally on the side of 'if it's over 30, we pull her out'. So HOPEFULLY it isn't and she can go and it'll all be fine. But if it is over 30 kids he is fully supportive of her going to one of the other local good schools with spaces. So we are clearer in our response to their answer now, thank you MN.

Not going to lie, schools can and will do some funky things with numbers (source - been a teacher for many years), I've seen the inside of schools come up with some magic loopholes when it comes to statutory requirements. Including "floating" teachers, TAs classed as "unqualified teachers" etc.

I once taught a Ks1 class with 36 children in!! (And no, I had no say in this).

As a teacher, I'm very aware. And always suspicious!