The "anything is possible" brigade

[Arkarians]

Anything is possible with enough hard work! Does anyone else find this phrase annoying as fuck?

You can become a billionaire like Elon Musk apparently, if you just simply work as hard as him.

Anyones child can excel in school, get top marks on all of their GCSEs and get into Oxbridge, if they bothered to work hard enough.

Anyone can achieve a high-flying career as a lawyer or doctor, if they just work hard enough.

The implication is that people who aren't massively successful lawyers, doctors, business owners, CEOs, etc are lazy fucks who couldn't be bothered to put the effort in? Not to mention how your background and/or current circumstances are a massive factor in success too.

Surely it doesn't matter how 'hard' you work, you could work 12 hours a day until the day you die and still never achieve Elon Musk level success. If you don't have the creativity, the right ideas, the luck and all the physical capacities for it, it will never happen.

Is there something Un-PC about acknowledging that people have different abilities, circumstances, levels of intelligence, etc, and not everyone is built for huge success?

It's not just seen as unskilled

It's officially classified as unskilled

Those are basic facts unfortunately

My dh grew up as a white boy in apartheid South Africa, he was advantaged from the second he was born. His parents did what in UK would have been classed as “working class jobs” but still they had a nice detached house with a swimming pool, and Dh went to a very good school. Yes he worked very hard and is naturally academic, so he got into medical school. There were no black boys in medical school, and Dh was definitely at the lower end of the social class scale.

Life isn’t a level playing field. Circumstances are far more important than most people recognise.

"I'm finding this thread quite depressing. What is clear is that we are a very materialistic society who value people because of what they have or the position they hold rather than who they are, how they behave towards others and what they contribute to society. I had (rather optimistically) hoped that we might have moved on a bit from that view"

@feellikeanalien try not to feel depressed as I believe you're drawing an incorrect conclusion. No-one has said, or at least I have interpreted the discussion as "people are valued for what they have or position they hold rather than who they are etc".

It's instead purely a discussion on whether or not people could achieve more (not be valued more) by doing things differently (generally, working harder / smarter) with there being objective arguements on why certain roles are paid a certain amount (again, not how much the individuals in those roles are valued, but why the supply and demand dynamics of the role result in a particular salary).

On a philosophical point... It might be that you're subconsciously equating "value of a person" to position achieved / what they have then person then persons it's you and if so... doesn't the argument that generally more people could achieve more imply value is intrinsic and not linked to position held / goods owned ie theres many in the thread arguing for counter the point you're making?

Sorry, haven't read the full thread, but I think you are missing the point of the message which is - if there is something you want to achieve/if you have a dream, you can do it if you try hard enough. So eg. If you are a runner and want to run a marathon, you shouldn't give up because you can barely run around the block of you want it enough, keep training hard, don't give up, you'll get there.

Obviously, if

@Carpy88999

So?

It doesn't mean that deserve to be paid what they do.

Well said! @Brieandcamembert

Sorry, Mumsnet not working for me today...not finished post! ..

Obviously, if I'm a nurse in the NHS, then simply working 12 hour shifts will not turn me into Elon musk. However, if I wanted to be a CEO of a company, I could do that if I took on a part time masters, work my butt off at night studying, got a job in a relevant field, worked hard at it, etc.. etc....

I love the idea of telling kids they can be whatever they want of they work hard enough. My kids have bought into this and actually my 10 year old now has a 4 year in plan up his sleeve to break a world record age 14. I think he'll do it. Even if he doesn't, he'll have got close, learned so much on his way, and have realised that dreaming big and working hard is rewarding and worth it. Noone should put limits on their dreams or be told they 'cant'

It depends how you measure success. I am probably clever enough that i could have been a doctor or a lawyer. But i didn't want to do those things. Not interested in a high pressure career, i don't measure success by money in the bank and the size of your house but by whether my life gives me enough time and opportunity to be creative.

@Underhisi

Your issue seems to be your recruitment criteria*... you're looking for experience... explain to me:

How to people gain experience if to do the role requires experience...?

Or in other words... How do new people enter the field if to enter the field you need experience?

I think you need to consider whether direct experience is actually necessary...

*the other issue maybe how much you're offering to pay considered against what you're asking for. If you believe it to be a more specialised role than what the LA have provided funded for, you could consider topping up the rate on offer yourself so that you can attract the applicants you want?

But if there dream isn’t simply to run a marathon but to win an Olympic gold medal then it isn’t just a case of working hard enough

it helps to be born and raised at altitude for a start

I think that's the point: success is achieving what you want to achieve (be that more money, better life / work balance, more service to society or whatever) and any are advocating that more people can do this by believing it's possible and working harder / smarter at it

YANBU

that lower wages haven’t risen for many years just isn’t right there are plenty of jobs that are well paid pen pusher jobs that are not needed yet because the person will have a good salary and university education they are valued more

100% yes.

There used to be a poster on MN whose name I see occasionally still, who would insist that all it took was very hard work and "choosing the right career" in order to become very wealthy. That was what she has done. She forever ignored the fact that not many people had her capabilities, and who was going to do the essential less respected jobs if everyone chose rewarding well paid £1000 a day work like she did?

We need more respect and better pay all round.

"Your issue seems to be your recruitment criteria*... you're looking for experience... explain to me:

How to people gain experience if to do the role requires experience...?

Or in other words... How do new people enter the field if to enter the field you need experience?"

Previously it has been people who work or have worked with those with similar needs in specialist settings. They have the necessary training, understanding, skills and know what to expect. As a child gets older and bigger it is harder to find people to do it because the role becomes much riskier and more demanding. In a specialist setting you have support around you. Out in the community you do not.

The LA have now realised that no one can do the role and will fund a full time residential place that we can use whenever we want for respite.

Watch Eddie the Eagle film. He was determined and didn’t stop till he got to the Olympics.
I appreciate he is a rare person.

I don't really know what point you're trying to make now. Do you have an issue with people earning large amounts for a job not everyone has the physical ability or mental capacity to do?

@Carpy88999

You replied to a pp making a point avoid wealth inequality saying ceos and footballers weren't relevant.

Of course they are.

And yes, I have a problem with the belief that anyone 1 person deserves to 'earn' vast sums of money.

They dont. Regardless of what they do.

Especially when the vast majority of people who earn vast sums don't do anything of real value.

Not read the full thread but I can't bear the "anything is possible" tripe when it comes to infertility specifically and all the "helpful" and "positive" advice that comes with it.

"My cousin's best friend's dog's sister's twice-removed auntie tried for a baby for 20 years and one day she just stopped trying and boom! Pregnant with triplets! Just be positive and hopeful hun, you'll get your baby some day. Anything is possible."

Just please be quiet. Not everyone gets their baby some day.

Yes

"It'll happen for you hun, I know it will! You just have to be positive!"

From the person with three kids conceived within two years of each other.

So what? Just because something is officially classed as unskilled doesn't mean it is. The Sun was once officially classed as going round the Earth (to the point that people risked execution for saying the opposite). The original American constitution not only accepted slavery but officially classed slaves as three-fifths of a person.

Also, I think that the classification was made at a time when there weren't so many people surviving long-term with complex needs, and carers often were mainly employed to do certain physical tasks that older or disabled people might not be able to manage. The teenager with severe cerebral palsy, or the 90-year-old with advanced Parkinson's disease, needs a lot more thought and understanding, as well as physical strength, than that.

Nursing was basically regarded as unskilled until Florence Nightingale came along and professionalized it. Perhaps social care is awaiting its Florence Nightingale.

That's excellent news which I guess it does demonstrate the point that your recruitment critter is weren't quite right.

I really hope the solution works out for you and best wishes to you and your family going forward :)

@Topgub

"Especially when the vast majority of people who earn vast sums don't do anything of real value."

Oh come on, that's quite a generalisation... ultimately someone decides to pay them that so clearly they value what they do otherwise they would part with their own cash to pay them?! 🤷‍♂️

For example, whilst I don't personally value what footballers do (don't follow it in the slightest), many others do (including the general public who pay tickets / buy products) and that's why they get paid what they do...

@TakeTheOffPisteRoute

You think footballers add value to society?

No, not from my perspective, but others do, and choose to part with their money to pay them, that's my point: no-one would command such high salaries if someone else (with the ability to pay) didn't value what they have to offer (and ultimately decide to part with their own money to pay them).

Another way to look at it using your train of thought: if they don't add value then anyone could do it and there's hope for us all right?! 🤷‍♂️

@Topgub and apologies, I didn't realise me previously saying "whilst I don't personally value what footballers do" wasn't obvious enough....