To be rational about death

[frustratedhostage]

Ok, so I'm going to try to explain this as best I can. It's been brought to my attention that I apparently have a strange outlook on life/death, so I'd love opinions!

My attitude is that I'm not scared of death. It happens to us all eventually and I try to live each day well/fully and embrace being alive rather than worrying about dying.

I find it difficult to empathise with people who are overly dramatic about death. For example, elderly relatives who dress like they're in their 20's with dyed hair and lots of makeup suddenly developing an irrational sense of their own mortality as people their age start dying.
It's a given. We all die and if you're in your 70's/80's , what do you eclecticism? We're not immortal!!!

I do think that it seems to be hitting people I know who are desperately clinging onto their youth a lot harder. Like the makeup, unnatural hair colour and this whole younger illusion has not prepared them mentally for the reality if their actual age...

From what I've seen, those people who live a more authentic life where they are happy in their own skin and aren't trying to be something they're not seem to be more at ease with the whole thing...

I don't feel my outlook is strange. I think it's realistic!

I agree with you re the attitude to death but not in the appearance part.

I think that some older people find a liberation in their age. Maybe free of a life partner who didn't like them wearing makeup, or dying hair? Or now they finally just don't give a shit what people think and are revelling in a new found sartorial freedom?

Yes there is a lot of anti-age sentiment around but living your life to the full, glammed up,ready for anything doesn't necessarily mean you're scared of dying - it may just be that you love living. And the two are very different beasts.

I plan to be that slightly mad old lady (who is glamorous and well turned out) , riding around on my bike chatting merrily to all and sundry and squeezing every ounce of fun from my precious life. And then pop my clogs. Living slightly disgracefully in my dotage is a serious life goal 😬

@catwomando I've reached that stage. I do what I like because I can!

My mum died at 89. What she wanted most was to be 90, then 91...
I'm 60 and still have a child in school. Inside I feel about 30. Of course we all die, but to say an older person has less right to want to keep on living is ridiculous. Our body eventually fails us, but our minds (bar dementia etc) doesn't always and many 90 plus year old still have a zest for life and are even contributing to society at large ( the Queen, David Attenborough for example) or to their own families and community.
And it's natural to want to look their best and good on them!

I used to feel like this. Not give death much thought.

Then last year I watched my mum die. It was horrendous. The whole death was painful and distressing. She fought to hold on until the very end. As she died she looked pained and terrified and frightened and gasping for breath.

I do not want to die like that. I also do not want my children to have to watch me die like that. It's really made me think about death.

I also do not want to die til my 80s at least. I adore my children and they aren't ready for me to go yet (I'm in 40s, they r little). I would be scared to die now, for them. I need to get to my 80s, for them.

I also just love life and don't want to go yet. I used to be low as a teen and think, well when it happens it happens. But now I don't want it to happen as I don't want to go. I like living.

I am the same outlook. It is sad when loved ones die but I don’t get all het up over it. Never have. (I used to plan my funeral and not my wedding when I was a little girl 😂).

I am dreading my partner’s grandparents or parents dying because I know it will affect him badly and I won’t know what to say to comfort him coz it always feels so hollow and non genuine when I try to show empathy for beverement.

So you’re saying that in your circle you notice the friends who are more ‘natural’ are realistic about death, where as those with make/up/looking younger are unrealistic about death and the certainty of death.

I find that interesting because when I see an older person with bright hair, jazzy clothes etc I assumed they’ve fully embraced age and their age has given them the confidence to go for it with their appearance. Where as when I see those in beige M and S trousers and jumper (im
purposely using stereo types here) I always assumed had just slot into what they thing old age should be and resigned themselves to cups of tea in front of count down.

my point is two people can notice the same thing and draw 2 completely different conclusions. I guess like everyone else old people are individuals who are probably
much more complicated than either scenario.

you mention loss of friends/family as people get into 80s and beyond. It actually must be incredibly hard, if you live to a particularly old age to slowly loose almost all your loved ones. How could not make you more aware of your mortality. Your parents, your siblings, your friends,
possibly a child. It would make me question think of death more too.

Wow I’m so sorry your mums passing was like that. I’ve never been with someone as they passed or lost anyone close to me. I can’t imagine experiencing that and it not in some way affecting how you feel about death.

I find it difficult to empathise with people was what I took from the OP

@frustratedhostage Death is universal, but humans are complicated and everyone is different. Work on your empathy.

I agree with most of the OP.
Death is not something to be afraid of and, in fact, may often be "a consummation devoutly to be wished".
I am also completely rational about it, especially as I get deep into my 50s and know that it's just around the corner for me.
It perhaps does make sense to fear the process of dying, especially if there may be pain. So, like most people, I do hope that I just drop dead one day without any warning - I should be so lucky!

I am also completely rational about it I always think this is a bold claim. I am not completely rational about anything and have yet to met a person who is. I am fairly rational about most things most of the time.

Those who claim to be completely rational are often completely but just can't see it.

I'm in my 50s.
I genuinely could not care less about how others dress. Life is for living. I am literally glad to see each day. If people want to dye their hair and refuse Marks and Spencers beige and Hotter Shoes good on them.

Hmmm

What do you mean deal well with mortality, what does dealing well with mortality look like to you ?
I don't understand how dyeing your hair and taking an interest in clothes means that you are trying to avoid death, can you bypass death with hair dye and a New look pair of jeans ?

@frustratedhostage have you actually had anyone close to you die?

I’m not afraid of dying OP, but I’m afraid of how I’ll die.

DM is the same and she’s 80. She also wears make up and colours her hair- not to look young or defy death, but she always has done and takes pride in her appearance and likes to look nice. She also showers daily and wears clean clothes and has her hair set and nails done. She’s also sad at the prospect she won’t see DD grow up.

“There are other terminal illnesses/illnesses that are said to be terminal but either have cures/ways of prolonging things.” Such as? OP YABU have you been around someone who is having their life prolonged or not? It’s often painful, there’s no quality of life. Dying isn’t always closing your eyes and not waking up. It can be VERY different from that I can assure you.

You seem to have romanticised death to an extent.

I kind of get what you mean I think OP. I've faced death and survived once. It'll come for me again at some point, it's a given. I've lost many people around me, and am comfortable with death.

But these words from @wackamole are probably some of the wisest I've heard. Because when it comes to those final moments, I suspect none of us are quite as ready as we may have assumed. It's instinct I expect.

"She thought she was ready to die, all things considered. When dying, she found she was not as ready as she had thought."

You could have saved yourself a lot of time by just posting the part where you said ”I find it difficult to empathise with people”, because that is basically all your post says about you. You have no empathy - fine, but no need to be so proudly performative about it.

Think what you want about death, but it doesn’t make you more interesting - or more rational - than anyone else. Sneering at older people whose contemporaries are dying around them and being a dick about the way they dress just makes you unpleasant.

Death is inevitable. That doesn’t mean it will always be welcome.

I can tell you thought this post would make you sound terribly clever, but I’m afraid it just has the opposite effect. You’re not being rational and pragmatic, you’re just being crass.

I think as a society we do ignore/hide the reality of death for ourselves and others. I am now in my 70s and the view from here is very different to my 50s, in reality, I have perhaps 10 to 20 more years, if I am lucky. I am not morbid in any way, but I do try to remind myself of this fact. What I wear or do with my hair, has absolutely no bearing on this, and I really don't know what point you are trying yo make. My late husband and his friend who had both had life threatening illness, used to say 'see you soon.....if we're spared' and laugh, it was a gentle reminder to each other, to appreciate life. I don't say it out loud as some if my friends would be horrified, but it always echoes now, in my head.

Well, I am 54 and not at all bothered about death. I also have green hair. Because I want to. And I wear what I like. The appearance thing is a red herring.

I genuinely don't understand your response. Could you expand on what you mean?

Some of the replies on this thread are a bit hypersensitive, but I do think the OP is conflating two issues - fear of death probably has little to do with people's choice of appearence.

A more interesting conversation is arguably how good this country is at never talking about death.

@frustratedhostage this is an important topic that needs to be talked about more often.

I think part of the conundrum is that most people experience the death of others multiple times, but only experience their own death once. We are generally not well prepared for our own death.

Like one or two others I have experienced near death first hand - drowning. At first there's is a kind of a logical and optimistic stage, do this, do that, I can get out of here. Next there is total and utter abject panic which is really quite horrid. For me, as my oxygen levels dropped there was then an acceptance I was going to die, but I was really really annoyed for the things I would miss out on, that my family would have to go to my funeral, how my parents and brothers would feel etc etc. But this passed into deeper acceptance. I can't remember coming to the surface so must have passed out and lost consciousness and survived from a breath reflex.

My experience lasted about two minutes and has impacted pretty much affected my whole life since. I have huge respect and sympathy for @Lemonsyellow and @BensonStabler who it seems to me may be going through a slow motion version.

I’m fairly ancient, and the only thing that really worries me about death, is that if I’m anything like my mother, it’ll come far too late, when I’ve had advanced dementia for years.
Hence the extra clause in my Health and Welfare P of A, stating that in certain circumstances, NO life saving or life-prolonging treatment, thank you very much.

Impending death is different from theoretical death and maybe this is the wrong topic board, luckily mumsnet scrubbed a previous response from me on this thread which was out of order, because I feel angry. But it feels so unfair and I took the OP as a theoretical. Not my own death may I add. Any helpful words would be much appreciated and sorry to those who saw my earlier post.

@autocollantes don’t worry, you didn’t offend me at all. Honestly nobody wants to go out like that. I liked your post and fully ageee.

Also I hope nobody feels I was looking for sympathy. Not at all, I just wanted to give a very honest personal experience from my perspective. I am not overly sensitive about things and generally cope well, and still have a great sense of humour and a lot of love to give

Thanks for the lovely supportive comments to those who have gone out their way. Appreciate that.