To be rational about death

[frustratedhostage]

Ok, so I'm going to try to explain this as best I can. It's been brought to my attention that I apparently have a strange outlook on life/death, so I'd love opinions!

My attitude is that I'm not scared of death. It happens to us all eventually and I try to live each day well/fully and embrace being alive rather than worrying about dying.

I find it difficult to empathise with people who are overly dramatic about death. For example, elderly relatives who dress like they're in their 20's with dyed hair and lots of makeup suddenly developing an irrational sense of their own mortality as people their age start dying.
It's a given. We all die and if you're in your 70's/80's , what do you eclecticism? We're not immortal!!!

I do think that it seems to be hitting people I know who are desperately clinging onto their youth a lot harder. Like the makeup, unnatural hair colour and this whole younger illusion has not prepared them mentally for the reality if their actual age...

From what I've seen, those people who live a more authentic life where they are happy in their own skin and aren't trying to be something they're not seem to be more at ease with the whole thing...

I don't feel my outlook is strange. I think it's realistic!

But I'm not 40 abs I don't claim to be in excellent health.

I don't agree with you judging people and assigning them qualities like natural or graceful according to what meets your approval. I think YABVU to believe you have a special insight into people and to divide millions of people into 2 camps over a subject as vast as mortality, all based on your taste and way of looking at the world.

At no point have I said that this is how I perceive the world. It's relating to people I know who I am finding rather strange in their approach.

Hmm ‘Green welly lot’ vs ‘make-up and hair’ lot = a prejudice as old as time. It says you cannot have both style and substance- which of course you can.

My experience of losing people who I love is - it was too soon. And this goes for the ones who were old as well as terminally ill.

How do you prepare and accept your own mortality, really? A belief system can help, a connection to nature can help.

Although I think that not wanting to be separated (of which death is the ultimate separation), from loved ones is neither unusual or to be looked down on.

My parents and in laws are all in their 80s now. A few years ago, I'd have said that all four of them were very sensible and pragmatic about their own mortality - appreciative of the long lives they've had, accepting of the inevitable next step. And I'd say the same about myself. But actually, three of the four of them seem to be struggling with the reality of it (experiencing the deaths of many of their friends and a serious decline in own health) far more than I'd have expected. Maybe I'll be the same when I'm in my 80s? Who knows?

You can have all the ideas you want, but as someone up the thread said, you'll never know how you actually feel until you are told you will die soon. So it's completely hypothetical you being "rational with death".

I'm sure a lot of people aren't scared of actually being dead. But the thought of dying, especially through illness/cancer can be very difficult, especially if you have seen people close to you going through it. And leaving your family and friends behind without you in their lives, and knowing how upset they will be afterwards is really dreadful for anyone to go through, regardless of what age you are.

So please have compassion for those who have been diagnosed with a life-limiting illness or who have had friends who have died and are worried about their own mortality.

As someone who has a terminal progressive disease. Actually facing your mortality is the most horrifying, terrifying, heart wrenching - soul breaking feelings… Utter despair and fear.

After being told of my prognosis it took me a year, almost two to somewhat accept it. There’s no choice!

It’s coming at me like an unstoppable freight train. Having that terminal diagnosis takes time, to be able to calm down the constant fear and anxiety, and the feelings of total loneliness, then to just live what time you have left without constantly breaking down or having nightmares about you death and being put in the ground. The yearning and begging, pleading to a God I don’t believe in to please let you stay here with your child and family, alive and having a long happy, healthy life together. It’s like grief though, and it hits you in waves.

That time it took me though, so many people face a much more immediate terminal prognosis, where they just don’t have that precious time to get to grips with it or spend time with their loved ones knowing it’s their last days. Genuinely I don’t know how they do it. It’s so easy to be blasé about Death when you are still a time away from it.

Even before my diagnosis I was open with family about my wishes to be an organ donor, and my funeral wishes. I can talk openly about death now without breaking down all the time, but that is only because i am still a couple years away from it at the age of 42.

By then i will become increasingly and profoundly disabled, unable to walk, talk, swallow, eat, breathe, think or do anything for myself. I will end up with round the clock nursing care and death can come in many different forms due to my ever increasing frailty of my my mind and body. All of that and the pain it inflicts on my precious DD breaks my heart. I dread and fear going through that dying process, and inflicting that on her. That is too much to bare. I know that the slow agonising suffering I am going to go through, that Death will actually be a sweet release, because I have already watched several family members die from this genetic curse. Even so, I truly do not feel ready to die and I will NEVER feel ready to leave my beautiful loving young Daughter.

When Death is just around the corner or imminent, of course it is the most terrifying upsetting thing any one will experience, no matter the cause or age. There are some better ways to go for sure but ultimately it ends the same permanent way, and the effects are enormously profound.

I can relate to older people near their time because that’s similar to where I am despite being told in my 30’s. They are just luckier too have had more years of life and love behind them. In saying that though I can imagine that may even make it harder to face because you have so many decades with a spouse, children, grandchildren, family, friends and your entire lifetime of cherished precious memories that soon will end and be gone forever.

This

Bit of an odd juxtaposition there OP.

I kind of know where you’re coming from but my philosophy is the opposite:

If we’re all going to turn to dust one day - dye your hair pink! Dance in the street, sing loudly, wear the crop top, swim in the sea! Do what makes you feel the most happy. Enjoy every moment as if it were your last and people’s perceptions of what is or is not age appropriate is irrelevant! I wouldn’t say it’s ‘holding on to your youth’ so much as not holding on to ridiculous societal standards of what is or isn’t appropriate 😉

I don't think this is a particularly unusual view. Most people I know would say that they are pragmatic about death, because it's extremely easy to feel that way as long as it's a distant(almost academic) prospect.

However, it's too early to be patting yourself on the back. Unless you're one of the lucky few who goes out quickly or painlessly, one day you'll have been confronted with the fact that you are dying NOW, rather than 10, 20 or 50 years down the line. You have no idea how you'll actually deal with that. Nobody does.

*You'll be; not have been.

@BensonStabler I'm sorry. I just wanted to acknowledge your very brave and honest post.

I am not afraid of being dead.

I don't want to end up with a slow, painful death or something like motor neurone disease.

I have had two cancer scares. The first was quite serious as the lump grew to 12cm very quickly and test after test was inconclusive. The expression on every single dr's face over that time spoke volumes. I didn't have kids then and I didn't feel panic, just wanted a solution.

Next time round I had kids. And I was overwhelmingly panicked about them losing their mum. I think losing your mum as a child is worse than dying or being dead.

So I understand what you mean I think about not fearing death.

I don't want anybody to suffer, so watching a relative struggling at the end of their life would be painful for me. The fact they were no longer here after they died would be deeply sad. But again no fear.

Re the attempting to hold onto youth - one of my grandmothers was like this. Would also refer to being 21 All. The. Time. I think that was very specifically to do with the aging process. I get that. I'm a little younger than you and already don't find the aging process enjoyable! I don't mind being my age but if I could be it and have a body that behaved like it was 25, regardless of how it looked, I'd be more than happy! 😂

Benjamin Franklin famously said 'Nothing is certain but death and taxis'

He is correct about death but clearly he never stood outside an Indian restaurant, in the cold and rain, waiting for a taxi which he had ordered that never turned up and then had to walk home.

BensonStabler I had not RTFT when I posted. My post seems very insensitive after yours. I was just replying to the OP.

You describe so well what you are going through and have been. I wish for you that you didn't have anything to describe.

It’s taxes not taxis 🤣 Might make more sense…

@BensonStabler Your post is so humbling. Thank you for sharing with us. I feel inspired, after reading your words. I’m sorry for what you are going through. 💜

Just this really

@BensonStabler Thank you for your honest post. You express things better than I can.
I am in my 50s and terminally ill. From the outside, at the moment, I look fine. No one would know. I’m youngish, am slim, wear makeup, wear fashionable clothes, look stylish. I do park run and go to the gym. Why shouldn’t I? Until the reality of approaching death and pain and disability is very real and very near - not many years in the future - you can’t know how you will feel. Six months seems a lifetime. I still am frequently awake at 3am with terror and horror.

We all know we are going to die, but why should we not enjoy ourselves while we can . 'Drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die'. My DH died earlier this year, I thought he had a long time to go before we had to think about that, I used to joke that I would die first, and he would replace me with a younger, blonde model! Accepting that from the moment we are born, we are on a one way trajectory to death is one thing, but to feel that life isn't for living, no matter how we decide to enjoy that life, is where I part company with you. If having green hair and wearing certain clothes is what some want to do, then fine, the day may come when that is not possible. And when your friends , family etc start dropping like flies , mortality seems very near, and the need to 'live' becomes stronger.

I think your attitude is rather superior and insensitive. Has it occurred to you that you are wrong. People dress and present themselves as they want to be seen, and to enjoy. It has nothing to do with mortality that I can see.

I'm 50s I still wear shorts in summer, colour my hair, wear nice clothes and makeup but I do that because I enjoy looking good. Because those clothes are practical in the heat. Because it is appropriate to my lifestyle. I also run half marathons and practice martial arts. Having a good time, not holding off death 😀If you don't want to, that's up to you, but don't dress your choices up as philosophy because they aren't.

You can't expect people to live to your expectations of 'growing old gracefully'. You sound like my mother who expected anyone past 40 to join the WI, cover their arms and spend their afternoons watching countdown. 🙄

Most people, by the time they reach 40, have experienced the sudden death of an acquaintance. We are all aware of death, it is all around us. Have you recently experienced the loss of someone close? Is this a reaction to losing someone?

Daily Mail article in progress soon, no doubt

Having blue hair and wearing make up doesn't make you scared of death , how did you come to that conclusion?

Brag brag brag.

Good for you. Happy now?