Mark Feehily wants surrogacy to be cheaper and accessible for everyone

[Wouldloveanother]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11141771/Westlifes-Mark-Feehily-discusses-privileged-expensive-surrogacy-journey-welcome-daughter.html

Why are men so entitled?

@Minster2012

“@Whowhatwherewhenwhynow hasn't answered as to what funding you would help with then if I were in that scenario?”

^
I’m not a medical professional so I don’t know what could be funded to help women who can’t carry babies Themselves. My point is I’d support people arguing for more funding to address the medical reasons for their infertility.

However I see that as very separate to surrogacy. Surrogacy isn’t a medical treatment. Women’s bodies aren’t treatments for other women.

the issue is your focus is very clearly on the intended parent. Their needs and wants. My focus is on the infant. I don’t think an infant should be created and then separated from their birth parent to meet an adults needs/wants.

It's funny how everyone seems to know what a woman is when it's time to find a surrogate.

I don't think that is the prevailing stance to be honest, most feminists I've spoken to would go with 'as early as possible, as late as necessary'. But the point is that feminism is a very broad church and throwing down 'all feminists believe x' statements doesn't tend to go well, particularly when it is a derail.

Personally I do believe in full body autonomy but I also believe in women. If we had abortion fully on demand until term I don't believe late term abortions would go up at all. And now I'm derailing.

How can he be short of a few quid for god's sake. Why is it always about them and not about the poor surrogate who is desperate for the money in most cases, am sure some do it for other reasons but mainly for money, never hear about them. They deserve to be paid well and their health and well being during and after pregnancy looked after. It should be more regulated yes so women are not being taken advantage of which am sure happens so much and what if the baby has something wrong with it, what happens then, do the couple who are paying for the baby keep it or is the surrogate left to struggle with the baby or does it go into forster, adopted etc.

Don’t they just.

Oh I dunno. I’m sure people would happily refer to those people as “hosts” or “uterus havers” instead.

As pp said, "blessed be the fruit".

What about the women who use surrogate's because they do not want to be pregnant themselves even though they could incase they ruin their figure etc. It seems to be the in thing with celebs now. I can also see if you cannot have a baby and have tried for years and yearn for your own baby that people would think about surrogacy but it seems only the wealthy can afford it but it is a weird one as would not feel comfortable taking the baby away from the mother. Imagine in poorer countries how the surrogate mother is treated and how little money they would get.

Surrogacy is wrong.

If we accept surrogacy in society then we accept that women can be considered baby vessels instead of human beings. We also accept that humans can be bartered.

Strange that even gay men seem to be able to turn the perception of women as human off when they need something.

I also find it very distasteful that someone who can't normally create a new baby would choose to create a new baby through use of a woman's body, when there are so many abandoned babies and children who need parents and a loving home already.

No. The life and health and ownership her Body - - the primacy of the woman is all. We are not vessels.

unless we choose to be.

@moksorineouimoksori
“…when there are so many abandoned babies and children who need parents and a loving home already.”

^
I agree with you, but it’s because it’s about having a newborn. People who use surrogates want a newborn and Not an older baby or child. Surrogacy is focused on the intended parents desires not why is best for children.

EmeraldShamrock No not just because ds is gay. Before I finally got pregnant with ds I had been told I was infertile, exh & I had the discussion about if we were interested in adoption & I said that I couldn't go through with adoption, I felt & still feel that I couldn't love a child that wasn't ours biologically, had we had the choice of one of my eggs being fertilised & then implanted in a surrogate I may have felt differently. I know most surrogate babies are only biologically the father's but knowing how many adopted children have gone through trauma before they are adopted surely surrogacy is a good option if the surrogate is happy to carry a child for a couple. Also knowing how few children are available for adoption since contraception has improved & abortion is more readily available. I agree that there should be a regulated framework for surrogacy instead of it being a private arrangement to protect the mother & the baby.

Yeah, stop that derailing, I'm a bad influence. And seriously, if you value a woman's right to choose over an unborn child under any circumstance, you should value her right to birth the child and give it to people who want it, if she genuinely chooses that, or sell it if she chooses that because her wants come first. The only real issue then is that these women don't get enough money, rights and support. I don't agree with that because I think a foetus has rights, like maybe not to be conceived at all in this less than ideal situation. As late as necessary makes no sense, not to me anyway. Necessary to whom? In what way? Rhetorical questions, since it is another debate. Anyway, if you believe the rights of a woman are always more important than that of a foetus you should be fine with a woman conceiving a foetus for sale or donation, because she wants to and that comes first. Obviously no one is OK with exploitation, but I am stating that with your position, a woman truly choosing this should be fine.

gnilliwdog, are you slow...?

And seriously, if you value a woman's right to choose over an unborn child under any circumstance, you should value her right to birth the child and give it to people who want it, if she genuinely chooses that, or sell it if she chooses that because her wants come first.
Anyway, if you believe the rights of a woman are always more important than that of a foetus you should be fine with a woman conceiving a foetus for sale or donation, because she wants to and that comes first.

Er, no, because in this case the unborn child was created as a result of the surrogacy. No surrogacy = no child, and no rights to worry about at all.
How can you not see that this situation is different?

@gnilliwdog but they’d be selling a baby not a fetus. If you followed your train of thought then surely I should also be able to sell my 6 year old?

@moksorineouimoksori I don't understand why killing a full term foetus for any reason is OK, but creating one for someone else is not? According to you a foetus has no rights and is not a person, so if a woman wants to make one for money or other reward what's the problem?

I don't understand why killing a full term foetus for any reason is OK, but creating one for someone else is not?
Because the foetus was created out of nothing, used a woman's body for 9 months to gestate and deliver it, and then supplied to the "surrogate user(s)".
It was not created some other way (consensual sex, birth control fail, rape etc), therefore would never have existed if not created for this purpose.

Also, full term foetuses are not just killed for fun because someone fancied it. Are you trying to play devil's advocate or are these insane things something you actually believe?

@Whowhatwherewhenwhynow I can't see much difference between a full term foetus and a newborn, really. The surrogate mother conceived a foetus with the intention of selling or donation, so the point of sale was actually at conception. If you conceived your child to sell or donate her, according to your views I suppose that would be consistent. I am sure you wouldn't ever want to!

@moksorineouimoksori I think you are the one who is slow. Of course I don't believe these things, but I am tired now of trying to point out your lack of logic and reasoning. I guess you never studied Philosophy. I am never normally rude, but you have been particularly unpleasant.

This

And this

Is the point of sell at conception? So intended parents would pay a surrogate the full payment even if they conceived but then miscarried at 8 weeks? I don’t think this is the case in places like the US, I believe it’s paid in stages and full payment is on receipt of the baby. Nope the payment is for a baby not a fetus.

@Menopants and may the lord NOT open this can of worms. How scary would it be 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

gnilliwdog, sorry I wasn't bowled over by your facts and logic! 😂Funny how you mention philosophy while also failing to grasp the simplest statements. Wake me up when you realise that changing everything about a scenario means it's no longer equivalent and then we can engage again

Tbf, there aren't many abandoned babies, but yes, children up for adoption.
Not quite what these people want though is it?
Adopted children have a background, they aren't brand new and belonging to them, with an easy to write out mother.
It's horrible.