I really liked my neighbour until she said this

[neighbourhoodwatch]

I've recently moved to a new area and was talking to my neighbour, who I really like.

Somehow the conversation went to GPs and how you can never get appointments and basically have to beg to be seen nowadays.

She was saying how it didn't used for be that way... before...

She then went on to say that it's because of all the immigrants that have come into this country and how our country is too small to hold all these people.

She also talked about the illegals coming in on boats etc and how terrible it is.

I am immigrant. I didn't come on a boat and I have a good job etc. But essentially I came to this country. I've never claimed benefits or anything like that. I'm on a high salary etc and studied here etc etc. So, I'm well established. Essentially whenever people say stuff like that, alarm bells start ringing for me.

Am I seeing it too black and white ? It's just difficult when someone says stuff like this to someone who also came here..... as an immigrant...

@verdantverdure But why is is not true? Do you not believe in facts and figures?

Everyone who is in touch with reality, and who has ever given the issue a moment's thought knows it's not true @excitingusername.

@neighbourhoodwatch But you 'other' yourself? you said you don't relate to how the British think about their culture or think they have rights to their land. Is that not an openly hostile stance? Try and reverse it if huge amounts of Brits were doing the same in your country of origin (and we're talking modern-day, not colonial pls) and they came and said exactly what you have said. I don't believe for a moment you would agree with it.

You've said you feel more kinship with foreigners - and yet there are many Brits who welcome you here and have tried to integrate - does that not suggest you continue to 'other' yourself and that culture ultimately matters?

Your stance is politically hostile to the settled population as you believe our government should prioritise those that would come over those who are here (including now, you) - should the Brits just sit down and just accept that? Genuine question.

@verdantverdure Well - I'd love you to explain what thought process and reality you are in touch with that disproves what the neighbour has said? I am not aware of this parallel reality so I'd love to hear about it? There are many factors that are knackering the infrastructure but population increase is definitely one no? What do you think the crazy housebuilding is for?

@neighbourhoodwatch

"I disagree with patriotism and nationalism of any form really"

Now we are getting down to it...

So you think the whole world should be made up of a homogenous mass of people ? A global human race, in a world completely controlled by a central government?

Another supporter of the Kalergi Plan comes out of the closet.

Facts and reality are available to us all @excitingusername

*@excitingusername

But you 'other' yourself? you said you don't relate to how the British think about their culture or think they have rights to their land. Is that not an openly hostile stance? Try and reverse it if huge amounts of Brits were doing the same in your country of origin (and we're talking modern-day, not colonial pls) and they came and said exactly what you have said. I don't believe for a moment you would agree with it.

You've said you feel more kinship with foreigners - and yet there are many Brits who welcome you here and have tried to integrate - does that not suggest you continue to 'other' yourself and that culture ultimately matters?

Your stance is politically hostile to the settled population as you believe our government should prioritise those that would come over those who are here (including now, you) - should the Brits just sit down and just accept that? Genuine question.*

I don't mean just British people. I mean everyone. When you're not really from anywhere, like me, you kind of transcend nationalism and entitlement to any land by birth right. I'm a global citizen. We should all be global citizens. We are all humans. Why should a human have more rights over a certain land than another human ? We all live on the same planet. I'm not saying our government should prioritise me or another immigrant. But it you're willing to work and pay taxes, what's the issue ? If you are contributing positively to society, what's the problem ? There are so many people who are ' from ' a place, who contribute nothing to it. Not just in Britain, everywhere.

I have many British friends and also foreign friends like me. I've lived here for over 20 years ( most of my life ). But I am still met with cliche jokes about my heritage constantly, which I don't find funny frankly. I'm not my heritage. I'm just me. I don't even identify properly with my heritage anyway. It's so mixed. It's just boring for, sorry to say, some British people to STILL only focus on that aspect of me. Not everyone does it and also, I get it's a curiosity etc, but I feel othered by that and also by what my neighbour said. For me, life is not about nationality and borders and entitlements to land.

@verdantverdure wow - sounds like some cryptic and exciting alternative info you have that goes against what the OP's neighbour is saying but for some strange reason you're keeping it to yourself. It must be good stuff. Oh well, I tried.

She's entitled to her opinion. The country has changed beyond all recognition over the past 50 years, that isn't disputable. Whether it has been good or not is a matter of personal opinion.

@neighbourhoodwatch I'm afraid, much as you are entitled to your opinion and I have heard many people talk like this, I fundamentally disagree and really this only serves to show that your stance is hostile and detrimental to the settled populace. I also think they have a right to oppose it rather than sit back be forced to comply with global citizenry foisted upon them by importing this kind of thinking.

Twenty years, and yet it still sounds like you have no strong regard or loyalty to where you live or the people. I think that sort of nomadic mindset and easy dismissal of other people's culture and heritage because you don't have your own, is not good.

The global citizen stuff is being foisted on us anyway so it's happening regardless - but I think it's just nuts to expect people to have no reaction to forcible change of environment and culture - like your neighbour.

@neighbourhoodwatch I also get that people emphasising difference still after all these years must be irritating as anything and I sympathise. We are getting better at that though. The younger generations tend to be more tactful perhaps?

I really think that the anti-immigration stance of most Brits would disappear if they felt things were proportionate and that the Government was setting up a better system. I don't think the Brits overall want to be or are racist and I believe they are open to all ways of life and people. I think it benefits immigrants to empathise with what is going on for the British so that immigration can continue at a practical rate with improved infrastructure and relations between peoples.

Objective reality is not hidden @excitingusername, we can all find facts if we want to.

People who are not in touch with objective reality generally have chosen it, by carefully curating their information sources and dismissing any contradictory information.

@verdantverdure Um, I could send that back at you tbh. I keep asking you for facts that are contrary to statistics and generally ANY contradictory information. But you don't have any.

Changing demographics and population increase is a fact, what is it that you are even disputing? You're saying absolutely nothing of substance except to repeat yourself aimlessly. I'm asking for some information you deem yourself to be privy to that others are apparently not. I'm asking where you find stats/figures and reporting that dispute demographic change and significant population increase?

If you acknowledge that pop increase and demographic change is reality then so too are the consequences that people experience with it. Not the crap they read but in their real lives!

@excitingusername of course you're also entitled to your opinion. But don't you think eventually, as people move around more and more and globalisation continues. People will just be people ? Why is that an issue ?

I do have my own heritage ! It's just not the focus of who I am. And I think it divides us, if we place too much importance on that. I also have huge regard for where I live and where I have lived. I have lived in several places. I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen. My children and I have multiple nationalities, including the British one. We have the right to be here, because we stick to the rules, integrate and we pay our taxes here. We pick up bits of every culture we've been exposed to and we celebrate them all equally.

I don't think it's fair to say I don't have regard for this country, just because I don't like nationalism. That's not Britain specific. Everywhere I've lived there were people who were hugely nationalistic. I just don't agree with it, I never have. I think it's outdated and dangerous. Perhaps I have a particular fear of it because of where I am 'from' ....

@excitingusername I also totally agree with you that brits over all are absolutely NOT racist. Trust me, I've been to some places where the tolerance is much much much lower for immigrants and foreigners. It's actually quite good here. My kids are totally integrated, as am I. Yeah it's annoying people always point it out, that we are not 'from' here, but like I said, I do try and keep an open mind and think people are curious and trying to find something to talk about.

But occasionally it grates on me, just because to me it's not a big deal. I just live my life. It's natural to me. I feel part of things here. I don't think about where I'm 'from' a lot...

She says after starting a thread about immigration.... but I think hopefully you get what I mean.

@excitingusername

People who want facts will look for them.

I think you need to accept that heritage IS really important to many people and be more respectful about that. You seem incredibly blasé about it. You could learn about the Native Americans struggling to hold onto their land, heritage, history, etc. to get an idea into other’s mindsets.

But don't you think eventually, as people move around more and more and globalisation continues

Leaving aside Law, which makes your ideas frankly irrelevant, most people are not nomads and have a strong attachment to their land, culture and fellow citizens.

Most people cannot and do not want to relate to how you feel, and why should they? It's not their fault that you have decided to live somewhere else.

But it you're willing to work and pay taxes, what's the issue?

Would you allow someone ownership of your home just because one day they decide to let themselves in and pay for the council tax or make some other contribution?

Your home is still yours until you decide to part with it, or do you not agree with property ownership either?

There are pros and cons with everything and this is no different. Where are you from, OP, albeit that you don't put much on your heritage and it's not the point of you?

@excitingusername the population of the uk over 50 years ago when I was born was just shy of 56 million, it has gone up over those 50 years to 67.44 million , so over the course of 50 years it has increased by just over 10 million. It jumped from just shy of 50 million in 1948, to just shy of 56 million in under 25 years, but that was obviously the right sort of population increase ?

As for uncontrolled immigration, the vast majority of immigration to the UK is controlled. Net migration to England and Wales averaged 200,000 per year between the 2011 and 2021 Censuses, including British citizens. People come and go all the time, some come to study, some to work and some to live, not everyone who arrives, stays indefinitely.

Governments know how many people are coming and going, they could ensure the funding is there to provide adequate infrastructure for everyone, they are ultimately responsible for doing so. Heaven forbid anyone should hold those responsible to account ?

@BirmaBrite
"Governments know how many people are coming and going"

Really? Do they really know how many overstayers there are?

“The most recent investigation by the Independent Chief Inspector of Borders and Immigration found that the number of non-visa national visitors who were not recorded as leaving on time between 2015 and 2017 amounted to 500,000 in two years, or just over 250,000 per year,” the report added.

However, if the most recent figure of 92,000 people here on visas who were not recorded as departing in time were taken alongside the most recent equivalent published annualised figure for non-visa national visitors not recorded as departing on time during 2015-17, the total would be 340,000 per year.’

"Government funding" isn't a magic money-tree. It comes from law-abiding tax-payers most of whom take a dim view of having to subsidise law-breakers.

@neighbourhoodwatch And to add to that - because the UK basically
built it’s wealth on the riches and labour of other countries/people ( British Empire & slavery) it’s a bit late for them to suddenly now when it’s convenient demand on carefully guarding borders.

I’d have a bit more sympathy if it wasn’t a country which was built off the backs off brown and black nations, and still continues to exploit them in more subtle ways even now.

Exactly, this country always has money for wars or massive government contracts for the ruling parties cronies and contacts but suddenly needs to hold the purse strings tight when it relates to matters such as providing better health care, housing, schools and enforcing safety and environmental regulations. Look at how they didn’t even manage the loans during Covid and it was subject to a LOT of fraud. Or how extremely rich people were claiming government money to furlough their staff. They’re careless with our money when it’s convenient for them.

Yes this is my only concern re. NHS staff. It’s good these foreign workers are supporting the NHS, but there is a bit of a brain drain going on in terms of the UK taking on these invaluable health professionals from other countries.