Landlords are hated but

[Parsley1234]

I am a landlord tenants been in situ for over 10 years very happily in a character Victorian terrace rent raises minimum I leave them alone get repairs done in a timely manner however from 2028 I will have to either sell holiday let or leave vacant the property as the modifications are untenable for me. Double glazing adding internal walls to make small rooms smaller etc. We are in a housing crisis this is going to make it worse and for all of you who want to have a go at landlords maybe look at the government housing policy first

Quite...

@Swashbuckled I had to take a job working for the government in lockdown it was the most awful experience. The ineptitude the lack of critical thinking in fact any thinking and the inertia so so so awful

Sounds dreadful; should be the new national service..

Maybe the government can offer to buy private landlord owned properties at the market rate, with the incentive that the seller doesn’t need to pay capital gains tax and the original tenants can remain
Haha, of course that was never considered before!

Why? Because it would be losing all the tax landlords have to pay to be a landlord. I pay 40% on all the income I get.

You want them to find billion to pay for properties and give up capital gains and the regular income tax? Rent would not make up for it all. That's why.

@vivainsomnia Yes, I imagine you’re right. 40% income tax is not at all unusual for landlords.

So, if landlords sell due to the EPC requirements, not only will families lose homes, but society (including owner occupiers) will lose the benefits from landlords’ considerable income tax. And many tenants very much rely on the funding generated by income tax.

Everyone in this is feeling shafted. I don’t know why tenants and landlords don’t protest together; it feels like we will be equally screwed by the same things.

Everyone in this is feeling shafted. I don’t know why tenants and landlords don’t protest together; it feels like we will be equally screwed by the same things.

That would be the most logical thing to do but not while there is so much division and hatred towards landlords.

You make a good point. Homeowners don't contribute to HMRC in quite the same way. The industry must form a sizable chunk of tax receipts.

@Lunar270 True. I think people have been manipulated into blaming landlords for the state of things. Similar to the manipulation process with Brexit. (After the event, people returned to feeling shafted by the government.)

I haven’t been awake long and can only wonder what purpose it was serving to manipulate the population into blaming its housing providers.

It's deflection tactics AFAIC. Whether it's benefits, housing, Brexit etc. It's easier to get us all fighting as it shifts focus on all the underhand stuff that goes on at government level.

People power is very real and not good if we all banded together against government policies.

Why would they need to offer an incentive such as not paying capital gains tax if landlords are going to want to sell up due to EPC requirements and other regulations anyway?

Some could move back in and rent out their main residence to dodge capital gains tax? It would rely on the main residence being grade C though.

Seems a sensible idea and something we may do in the future, when we downsize.

@dianthus101
“Why would they need to offer an incentive such as not paying capital gains tax if landlords are going to want to sell up due to EPC requirements and other regulations anyway?”

As an incentive to sell to the government as opposed to a big rental company. This would mean the property could be offered to a family.

It might have been on another thread where I mentioned what the big rental companies are doing in my area:

Take a two/three bed Victorian terrace. Traditionally rented to a family. Due to changes in tax the companies are refitting these houses. The bedrooms become smaller by adding an en-suite. The living room is converted to another bedroom, also with an en-suite. That’s four rentable rooms. The kitchen is shared. They are nicely furnished (IKEA) and each room has a bed with new mattress, a wardrobe and a chest of drawers.

Prior to this, the example of the full 3 bed house was rented as a family home for, let’s say, £600pcm. In the converted property tenants are charged £550pcm inclusive of all bills (this was before the energy increases). That’s a total of £2200 pcm. As a HMO, the EPC rules don’t apply to them.

Great; four single people have a home. But families, including their children, have absolutely nowhere to go.

I feel like I post this all the time. The Tory government (and their rich mates and donors) want to be divisive, to keep all the rest of us arguing amongst ourselves. It’s how they stay in power, and keep creaming off the profits.

@vivainsomnia

Yes, the pitchfork and the torch people…
I wish we would learn from the past.

When there are no rental (whole) houses left, and families are on the streets having lost their perfectly acceptable homes due to a D grade EPC, then all decent people will wish the government had listened and back tracked. The government will likely wish they had too.

When the big EPC sell comes, if you are a potential buyer you will still be competing for properties from the big rental companies. They are making huge amounts now due to the conversion to HMOs, and will have considerable extra funds. If you are a current renter, your home will likely be purchased by a big rental company and converted into shared housing. Many landlords will sell due to the EPCs because it just feels like the last straw.

@Eeksteek

Sorry, the above post was in reply to yours…
(New to this tagging thing…)

Except that there are exemptions, particularly for older properties, and the most landlords will have to pay out will be £3500 incl vat. The prohibition on letting property below an EPC rating of E does not apply if the cost of making even the cheapest recommended improvement would exceed £3,500 (inc. VAT). It's highly likely the new exemptions will shift from the current below an epc E to below an epc C. They have not been confirmed as yet.

That’s not strictly true they can rent a room each and actually that would’ve helped me massively with my teenagers who were 18 and didn’t count towards the housings requirements for them to have a bedroom they could’ve had a bedroom in the same HMO as me.

Yes, families with adult children could do that.

But, say with the original 3 bed house example, and assuming two adult children. Originally it would have cost you £600pcm between you all. Now it would cost you £2200 pcm between you all, as I am assuming you’d want the fourth bedroom (the original living room) to be used as a family living room again.

Your bills would be included, but that’s still a big difference for the same property. And you’d have to successfully apply for the house as soon as it was converted to ensure all the rooms were vacant. Most individual rooms are advertised one at a time, as tenants move on.

Assuming the families with adult children are working, it would still be much cheaper to pay the shared rent of the whole original house. The cost of renting a whole HMO just wouldn’t be viable for the many families whose children are school-aged.

Perhaps they shouldn’t have removed the tax incentives for landlords to do the right thing and house families then it’s this lack of joined up thinking that’s just created one bloody mess after another. If I were to rent my house out now I would have to rent it out for double the mortgage due to the fact that I’m going to get taxed on the gross figure not the net one.

I agree; there’s a lot the government shouldn’t have done.

Just hoping they can engage in this type of reflection themselves before it’s too late.

Private landlords rent houses as HMOs too. It's certainly not just large rental companies. As you say bills are often included so even if EPC rules don't apply it's in their interest to make sure the property is energy efficient.

Yes, they do.

In my area, the HMOs used to only be in the very large Victorian terraces; bay windows, five bedrooms, two receptions rooms, small front garden.

Now, the big rental companies are applying this model to the small terraces; two bed (then convert loft) no bay windows, front door opening straight onto the pavement, one reception room and kitchen. The small landlords tend to carry on renting out this kind of terraced house to families.

It’s the jack of critical thinking and joined up thinking that is so abhorrent and unintelligent too awful

You csn sell a property for whatever price you like, it's not illegal

That’s interesting - do you have a source? Not that I dispute it, but I like to be prepared and I want to make sure if if definitely applies to me.