Page 19 | Landlords are hated but

Parsley1234 · 2022-08-18T10:11:59+00:00

I am a landlord tenants been in situ for over 10 years very happily in a character Victorian terrace rent raises minimum I leave them alone get repairs done in a timely manner however from 2028 I will have to either sell holiday let or leave vacant the property as the modifications are untenable for me. Double glazing adding internal walls to make small rooms smaller etc. We are in a housing crisis this is going to make it worse and for all of you who want to have a go at landlords maybe look at the government housing policy first

AchatAVendre · 20/08/2022 14:23

WanderingFruitWonderer · 20/08/2022 13:51

Sorry, but how can anyone justify owning 30 properties? It's obscene.
Most of your tenants probably work extremely hard too.
You've made a choice to be landlords. Many tenants don't have a choice.

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What do you think companies who rent out properties do? Have a different company for each flat?

There seems to be some strange idea that as soon as someone sets up a company and does exactly the same thing that a private individual does, there is some guarantee of professionalism. Whereas in reality, the opposite is the case, because companies which are badly run and face losses can just go bust with no personal liability of the owners, due to limited liability.

Goodness knows what you think of hotels if thats what you think of private landlords. They really fleece people and are always owned by companies or consortiums.

Blossomtoes · 20/08/2022 14:34

No, the proposal is for the rental market to be based on social housing (local authorities or housing associations) with the luxury or corporate rented sector provided corporately.

The owner occupier market would obviously be unaffected. It would in all probability increase as some social renters paying affordable rents would be in a position to save deposits to buy. In essence the rental market would revert to the way it worked before right to buy.

Swashbuckled · 20/08/2022 14:35

Can’t understand the hatred towards landlords. In my area practically all the private rented properties are Victorian terraces. With double glazing, loft insulation, combi boilers, TRVs and led lightbulbs, the highest band the property can get this a D. If landlords sell up, then the council will be left with a crisis.
There are exemptions in such situations (presumably in recognition of this). Will try to post a pic of current exemptions:

Onandupw · 20/08/2022 14:40

@Blossomtoes some social housing landlords are APPALLING unfortunately

Blossomtoes · 20/08/2022 14:41

Some private landlords are APPALLING too.

AchatAVendre · 20/08/2022 14:46

A ratings system might work better than government compulsion.

Onandupw · 20/08/2022 14:52

@Blossomtoes yes I know. My point is just that social housing won’t solve the problems of poor housing conditions for renters 🤷‍♀️

Veiaola · 20/08/2022 14:58

There is going to have to be exemptions on certain properties you have awhile yet to go before you have to do this, I hope that the government will get their butt into gear by then and assist landlords a bit more. I am not panicking yet.

Lunar270 · 20/08/2022 15:58

Eeksteek · 20/08/2022 12:31

@Lunar270

Amateur is not meant to be derogatory at all and doesn’t mean you are a poor landlord, just that it’s not your main or only income (it actually means to do something for the love of it, not for a living). I don’t know what else to call landlords who don’t depend on their income to keep their families fed and housed. Hobby landlords? Small landlords? Side-lets? 🤷‍♀️

Portfolio Landlords (Professional landlords? Career Landlords? Full-time landlords?) have generally taken out interest only mortgages, and then remortgaged each property every two years and bought one (or sometimes two) more with the equity. They very quickly need to be managing them full time, and I imagine it pays fairly well. That’s why they use interest only. They’re building portfolios. It’s pretty common for businesses to lease premises and large, costly equipment isn’t it?

These are obviously two extremes of Widow-let’s-property-to-raise child and Ruthless-Bastard-builds-exponential-property-empire. I imagine that relatively few landlords are dedicated career landlords in this way, and most landlords are smaller fry. But it leaves three points which the ‘the tenants are paying your mortgage and raising house prices’ belief doesn’t account for.

There are lots more landlords who have just a few properties than have huge portfolios. You are much more likely to be addressing one that isn’t a Ruthkess portfolio landlord than one that is.
Someone with just a few properties is not likely to be doing a lot of buying up of properties and driving house prices up. Aggressive portfolio landlords may well be. But the vilification of landlords isn’t bothering them one bit, and the tax and legislation changes won’t affect them much either. They’re shielded in limited companies or largely exempt.
Which kind of landlord do you think is selling up due to changes brought in by Rishi and his Portfolio Landlord wife and his Tory mates? So what’s happening to residential letting?

Landlords have been (relatively) small and diversified in towns and cities and to some extent across the country as the landed gentry have begun to be eroded since the wars. It’s now fast being taken over by big business in the way that shops have been. Where large chains are the norm and small independents the exception. I don’t think that will be a good thing for renters, residential buyers or the country in general.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Don't get me wrong though as I'm totally not offended by the term 'amateur' as I definitely don't depend on the rent to live. I didn't take it as derogatory.

I get the leveraging thing, is what I suspected and makes total sense. It's completely the opposite of what I'm doing as I'm looking to clear whatever small mortgage is left and invest the rent back into the property.

OnaBegonia · 20/08/2022 16:01

Your tenants should get on the LA housing list asap, they have 5 years to get housed and tbf this 'they don't want' regards repairs, if they want to stay them they need to tolerate the repairs/upgrades etc

Lunar270 · 20/08/2022 16:03

Onandupw · 20/08/2022 14:52

@Blossomtoes yes I know. My point is just that social housing won’t solve the problems of poor housing conditions for renters 🤷‍♀️

I worked at a hospital during college and when nurses would get subsidised flats that were owned by the NHS (or government, not sure). The condition was horrendous and maintenance diabolical.

Anecdotal I know, but IME state owned does not mean that things will be better. Same with the council house I grew up in.

SnackSizeRaisin · 20/08/2022 16:22

LittleMissLego · 18/08/2022 14:16

The housing market in the SE is utterly fucked, to be honest i think the only solution is a massive building social housing push. There is a horrific lack of council housing in my area meaning that the private rental houses are so in demand its unreal. Especially small, affordable ones.

I own a teeny studio flat. 5 years ago i advertised for a new tenant and i took the advert down after 2 hours as I'd already had 40+ messages expressing interest.

My flat will be nearly impossible to get to a C - things like ground source heatpumps and solar panels are a no go because its a flat, and i don't own the building. It already has double glazing, etc. I can upgrade the heating relatively easily with the tenant in situ but adding floor insulation will be impossible whilst she is living there and has it filled with her furniture.

So that means i either hope she moves out before 2028 (unlikely as shes very settled and now pays under market rent), or i end up giving her notice and once the flat is empty i can do all the various bits of work to try and get it up to the magic C rating.

So what benefit is that to my tenant? She'll have to go through the upheaval of moving, finding a new place, etc in an area where its already super difficult to find anywhere and where rental prices have rocketed.

And what if despite doing all the things recommended i cant get it up to a C? Well, the plan has always been that once dc reaches late teens/early 20s they could live there rent free, just covering bills. So worse case scenario is that flat sits empty (or dh uses it as a wfh office space) for a couple of years till dc want to leave home and move in.

So, in an area where there's already a massive shortage of houses/flats these rules may mean that a flat ends up sitting unused for a few years till my dc grow up.

Its easy to blame landlords, but actually everyone should be screaming at the government for not building enough houses/flats. The only reason rents are so darn high is that demand far outstrips supply.

It is only new tenancies that have to meet the requirements so there's no need for an existing tenant to move out. You can wait till she leaves and do it then. Probably no point rushing as the rules may well change again before 2028

Phineyj · 20/08/2022 16:28

I don't think that's correct. It's 2023 for new tenancies, 2028 for all.

onthefencesitter · 20/08/2022 17:20

Phineyj · 20/08/2022 14:21

So the proposal is for a Singaporean style housing system? 80% housed in basic apartments rented from the UK Housing Service and the remaining 20% rent privately or buy?

Maybe we should adopt their compulsory social saving system and sort out the NHS while we're at it?

I'm not being sarcastic. Could a party succeed with this kind of proposal?

I am from Singapore..the home ownership rate is 89%. People own those ' basic apartments' and they are 3 bedroom 1000 square feet house and you can renovate the interiors to whatever you like. My cousins spent 150k at least renovating theirs. My cousin's government apartment cost the same as my London flat because it is in a good location (but I am in zone 3 north London so in a sense desirable government flats in Singapore are comparable with London prices). The difference is that if you buy a new build in the suburbs, you can get a 1000 square foot flat for the equivalent of £200k and that's pretty good for a country where the salaries are on par with London. I have another cousin who bought a private apartment on a government scheme and it has a swimming pool, spa, karaoke room, tennis court. Maybe you live in a mansions these amenities so you consider such homes 'basic'...

Tirednurse1 · 20/08/2022 17:26

My dad is a small scale private landlord (14 houses). He cares for his tenants, charges reasonable rent and makes improvements to the properties and carries out repairs in a timely manner.

I am a renter, I rent via a letting agency who are useless.

I don't agree with private landlords, my dad is good but tenants shouldn't be relying on the luck of a good one.

Good quality rented state owned housing should be available for all

onthefencesitter · 20/08/2022 17:26

onthefencesitter · 20/08/2022 17:20

I am from Singapore..the home ownership rate is 89%. People own those ' basic apartments' and they are 3 bedroom 1000 square feet house and you can renovate the interiors to whatever you like. My cousins spent 150k at least renovating theirs. My cousin's government apartment cost the same as my London flat because it is in a good location (but I am in zone 3 north London so in a sense desirable government flats in Singapore are comparable with London prices). The difference is that if you buy a new build in the suburbs, you can get a 1000 square foot flat for the equivalent of £200k and that's pretty good for a country where the salaries are on par with London. I have another cousin who bought a private apartment on a government scheme and it has a swimming pool, spa, karaoke room, tennis court. Maybe you live in a mansions these amenities so you consider such homes 'basic'...

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www.propertyguru.com.sg/property-guides/hdb-flats-condo-renovation-inspiration-34301

The renters on this thread - would you prefer renting in the UK or owning a flat like the one in the link. Cos if you were Singaporean, you would definitely be able to own these flats as long as you have a job, save enough money for a 5% deposit and renovations and are married. If you are single, you can buy when you are 35 as a single.

This is in the most densely populated country in the world and it's what happens when there is a public housing market focused on mass home ownership. The caveat is that while you can buy and do anything you like in the private market, there are a lot of rules around home ownership in the state sector. For example you can only rent out the flat after 5 years of ownership and you can only sell to citizens and permanent residents.. can't sell to people who own a private property. Even though I am still a citizen, I can't buy a government flat even though I would like to because I already own a flat in London. But that's a good thing because I don't really need a flat in a country I don't even live in!

Onandupw · 20/08/2022 17:40

@Tirednurse1 the problem is that state owned properties are also very often badly managed

i was shocked when I found out that often with council houses there is no flooring and tenants have to put their own flooring in. And they are often in a disgraceful state with mould repairs needed etc. it’s quite shocking to be honest.

sadly state owned or not for profit doesn’t seem to make a difference in terms of standards

Swashbuckled · 20/08/2022 17:41

Maybe the government can offer to buy private landlord owned properties at the market rate, with the incentive that the seller doesn’t need to pay capital gains tax and the original tenants can remain.
These properties won’t then be placed on the open market and can become social housing.

Northerner1 · 20/08/2022 17:47

Onandupw · 20/08/2022 17:40

@Tirednurse1 the problem is that state owned properties are also very often badly managed

i was shocked when I found out that often with council houses there is no flooring and tenants have to put their own flooring in. And they are often in a disgraceful state with mould repairs needed etc. it’s quite shocking to be honest.

sadly state owned or not for profit doesn’t seem to make a difference in terms of standards

@Onandupw

I don't disagree, hence why I said good quality. Current state owned stock is over deplete and not all decent quality (some exceptions). I recognize that I am an idealist.

Itloggedmeoutagain · 20/08/2022 18:02

Swashbuckled · 20/08/2022 17:41

Maybe the government can offer to buy private landlord owned properties at the market rate, with the incentive that the seller doesn’t need to pay capital gains tax and the original tenants can remain.
These properties won’t then be placed on the open market and can become social housing.

Would you be happy with the tax increase to pay for this then?

Swashbuckled · 20/08/2022 18:08

don’t know.
People have been saying we need more social housing, and we do. Would providing that another way also increase taxes?

Blossomtoes · 20/08/2022 18:17

Why would tax increases be needed? The government could borrow the money and repay it from the rents - just like the landlords do.

onthefencesitter · 20/08/2022 18:19

Swashbuckled · 20/08/2022 18:08

don’t know.
People have been saying we need more social housing, and we do. Would providing that another way also increase taxes?

It would still be cheaper than paying housing benefit to private landlords. Or they could reserve a small portion of the social housing for middle income families who can't afford to buy on the private market. These people can afford to pay higher rent and contribute more to maintenance thereby subsidizing the council tenants.

Phineyj · 20/08/2022 18:20

Interesting info about Singapore, thanks previous posters. I must admit my sketchy knowledge is from CNN documentaries and Crazy Rich Asians so good to hear about real stories, although as a Brit, I can't easily visualise square footage as our property isn't sold like that. I am slightly boggling at government built housing with a swimming pool, although there's at least one block in Holborn with one.

I think the stumbling block in the UK would be that people don't want flats on the whole and also that flats are often poorly constructed (well, so are new build houses often but is there an equivalent the cladding scandal in Singapore? I'm guessing not...)

Swashbuckled · 20/08/2022 18:21

Blossomtoes · 20/08/2022 18:17

Why would tax increases be needed? The government could borrow the money and repay it from the rents - just like the landlords do.

Actually, this is very true.