To expect fair application to faith school?

[ordinaryriffraff]

I am slightly disturbed regarding a statement made by MIL.
She suffers from delusions of grandeur so please can you help?
She recently suggested that the school governors and head teacher go through applications made to local faith based school and are thus able to "keep riff riff out".

Can any teachers, especially head teachers let me know if this is actually something that happens??? Or is this yet another fantasy in MILs head?

Faith schools have a criteria list they have to work down, just like non-faith schools. Unless it's a private school that can take whoever, they have to follow the criteria or people would be appealing.

Well this is what I thought, MIL suggesting that head teacher has time to sift through each application and exclude "undesirables" even if they are of the faith.

MIL isn’t right. The admissions criteria will be published and they are followed

The process is managed by the council. They apply the schools admission criteria.

Your mum’s not completely wrong though. It is essentially a way of selecting mostly white middle class families who have the time and resources to play the system.

Admissions are usually done by the Local Educational Authority even for Faiths schools. They will then check the faith criteria is met if necessary.

How are they meant to know who the riffraff are?

No she is wrong, as far as I understand the application criteria will be published and the process is managed by the local authority not the headteacher or governors. My friend is a governor and she said they have nothing to do with applications.

I mean the school will check the faith element only

Precisely! this is why I am so miffed by what she is saying.

Assuming the local authority handles the admissions process, no it doesn't happen like that. The LA staff will order applications according to the school's admissions policy and if there are more people wanting a place than actual places, placed will be awarded according to that order. It's that simple. Of course, faith schools usually have criteria that favours people of their religion and then those of other faiths or religions. They may also put staff children high up the criteria as well. I personally think it is harder to 'keep out the riff raff' at religious schools because it is religion rather than postcode that gets people in but much depends on popularity, other schools etc

Faith schools don’t “go through the applications”. They don’t need to. Over subscribed faith schools keep hard to serve families out simply by having a faith requirement that often requires regular attendance at a place of worship or other adherence to particular practices and a need for extra work to apply. these act as a barrier to children with difficult lives (chaotic family life, parents who aren’t that bothered about education, parents with some mental health challenges, parents with little time on their hands and little support, etc.) whose families will find it harder to “qualify” and are less likely to apply.

Anything that requires parents to take a particular action is going to help remove hard to serve families from the applicant pool.

This. Almost any hoops to jump through mean vulnerable families and those struggling will be selected out. That's why faith schools have better results (even though atheists are more intelligent - just kidding).

@NumberTheory - absolutely this.

my son DF RC from Italy.we looked at RC school and they were honest enough to say our kid wouldn’t stand a chance. They DO take kids from other faiths but they couldn’t understand our stance - ds not baptised as from multi faith background. We ‘try before you buy’. RC doesn’t allow this or understand multiculturalism. In fact, DH was appalled and walked out of the school saying that in his country pretty much all schools are RC and welcome all local children. Why not here?

DH works all hours and could not have played the game to be seen at the church. So kid excluded.

bit this is the uk and expect more.

Personally I think that schools do "select by stealth" and the more schools that become academies and before set their own criteria the worse this will be.
Uniform prices, compulsory computers and suggested regular donations can all be enough to stop some hard up families applying. Yes, there will be hardship funds available but not everyone is happy to apply for this and make their financial situation known to the school. Therefore a much more wealthy/middle class cohort apply to the school

Pure fantasy. Even schools that are their own admissions authority, ie voluntary aided schools, have to adhere very tightly to the published criteria. Heads don't have the time to go through the lists crossing out undesirable applications, even if this was allowed.

Maybe she thinks non religious are more likely to be riffraff? Os something like that?

The 'selection by stealth' (i.e. discouraging certain parents from applying) can also apply to children with SEN, where schools put doubts as to 'whether they can meet the child's needs'.

A school doing as described by the OP would be found out pretty quickly given that admissions data is published and parents would appeal.

That’s correct. Some very over subscribed faith schools have intakes similar in ability range to some of the Kent grammar schools. No sifting by HTs required!

Ask her how they identify the 'riff raff'

I applied to a faith school for my children and didn't get a place, we were last on the criteria points despite living a three minute walk away. Our next door neighbours children got places for the same year-they are one house further away than us. There was no difference in our eligibility.

No idea if it was a factor, but I walk past every day, it's a very white school. My neighbours are white, we are a mixed family which would be evident from our surname.

Did they go to church regularly, have looked after children or siblings in the school?

And did you rank schools in the same order.

If not why didn’t you appeal given you appear to be accusing the school of racism

Not round here it’s not - churches aren’t predominantly white for starters

But that’s a side issue to the basic point that the main admissions rounds are coordinated by the council (even for schools that are their own admissions authority) and that there is little scope to gerrymander.

Error in applying the published criteria is grounds for successful appeal for the candidates who should have been offered places (even under ICS rules). No school wants to find itself over numbers every year

Maybe it depends where you live. Church goers are majority non-white where I live. That’s for all types of denominations.

The one I went to started doing this, I think.

I went there when it was a failing school, a new head teacher came and got it up to outstanding the year after I left, every year the children coming, compared to the year before them, were richer, more religious, less inclined to break rules, and seemed younger/less streetwise. My younger sibling still attends and I spent time their briefly as a transition assitant for a student with sen so I saw how it changed.

The drugs and police involvement died out with my year of students.
My year had 4 preganancies in year 11, there has not been one since I left. Attendance has improved, the children wear the uniform properly now and the school now has considerably more funding.
There are less fights and almost no instances of weapons being brought in, wheras these were regular 7/8 years ago while I was there. The catholic aspect has really ramped up, and the rules seem stricter. More students are driven in rather than walking, which I assume means they are coming from further away, rather than the two overpopulated estates that surround the school.

I assumed at the time, that this was a school getting better ofsted ratings, and the types of children that administrators want in schools started applying more. So each year the school took more and more of the richer and priviliged children and the others stopped making the requirements. So the 'nice catholic children' started applying and they didn't have to just take the local kids who didn't attend church.

As a student who was the last of the 'riff raff', it was weird, especially how much more money and resources flooded in once the younger kids appeared, and how lots of peoples siblings didn't get in anymore. It felt a bit like as soon as the school was actually good and there was money- they didn't want us anymore. All the local kids go to the next school over now which is a different 'satisfactory' comp.