Page 14 | To be shocked to discover

Junipercrumble · 2022-08-11T23:02:19+00:00

Apparently, it is NOT illegal for a stranger to take photographs or video clips of people, including their children in a public place. 😵 I, like many of my friends are astonished if this is true. I wonder how many people are aware of this?

Kidsfortea · 14/08/2022 14:37

XenoBitch · 12/08/2022 00:19

Wait until you hear about CCTV.

bobster31 · 14/08/2022 16:08

@CandyLeBonBon @Jumpking - that was my argument with them! It wasn't a public place, it's privately owned property but the police just refused to do anything. They knew exactly who he was, knew his address and was well known to the security staff for similar behaviour. The PC I dealt with told me that as no crime had been committed, his boss wouldn't let him go to speak to the man in question. I couldn't quite believe it! I think it was just a case of not enough police to deal with something they didn't seem serious.

Snaketime · 14/08/2022 17:42

Junipercrumble · 12/08/2022 01:01

Exactly!
Inadvertently capturing someone in a photo you are taking of someone you know is not quite the same as deliberately taking a picture or worse, a video clip of someone you dont know, without permission, must be breaking some law regarding privacy?

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In this situation you can't so anything about them taking pictures of your child, but you can go to the police and say there was a strange person taking pictures of my child, I asked them to stop, they wouldn't, I asked them to delete, they refused and this is what the look like. That situation would infer they were either a paedophile or trafficker.
A stranger taking pictures in itself isn't illegal, it is what they do with them that can be illegal.
Again if someone posts photos of you or your child on SM, you can ask them to take it down, if they refuse you can report them to the SM platform, after that I believe you can take them to court for using your image without your permission.

If they made it illegal it would have a knock on effect with cctv, ring door bells, dashcams etc also as it stands, if you feel you are in a dangerous position you can record the other person for your safety, there are lots of examples of this online when people record to save themselves.

FunnyBeaux · 14/08/2022 17:45

bobster31 · 14/08/2022 16:08

@CandyLeBonBon @Jumpking - that was my argument with them! It wasn't a public place, it's privately owned property but the police just refused to do anything. They knew exactly who he was, knew his address and was well known to the security staff for similar behaviour. The PC I dealt with told me that as no crime had been committed, his boss wouldn't let him go to speak to the man in question. I couldn't quite believe it! I think it was just a case of not enough police to deal with something they didn't seem serious.

What's the worst that could happen? I mean even if they had the most nefarious intentions (love this phrase), what actual harm do you think could come to your child?

Scepticalwotsits · 14/08/2022 19:19

FunnyBeaux · 14/08/2022 17:45

What's the worst that could happen? I mean even if they had the most nefarious intentions (love this phrase), what actual harm do you think could come to your child?

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if its privately owned property a breach of the rules is a civil issue not a criminal one, therefor police would not get involved

Popcorncovered · 14/08/2022 19:48

AngelsWithSilverWings · 14/08/2022 10:11

I see so often on local Facebook groups where someone's posts a photo of kids up to no good and then posters line up to tell her she has broken the law by publishing the photo. It's such a widely believed myth.

I'm a hobby photographer and am always out and about taking landscape shots and bird photography on our local beach.

One evening I was on the beach with my young daughter and was wandering around with my camera taking photos of her and of the landscape as the sun was setting.

A local scout group was on the beach playing football on the wet sand where the tide had gone out ( it's a thing here - they call it mud football)

Scout leader saw me with my camera and very rudely demanded I put my camera away. I refused and she demanded to see what I had taken. I explained politely that I was just with my young daughter getting some nice sunset photos of her and the landscape and had every right to take photos on the beach. She then asked me where I was going to publish them and that if any of the scouts were in them I'd have to get permission from their parents. She also said I was breaking the law taking photos of the scouts. I put her right on the law but she was so angry and rude to me. I had no plan to publish anything but I think my professional looking camera made her assume I would.

If she had come up to me politely and asked if I could try to avoid getting any of the scouts in my shots I would have gladly tried to. In the end I told her that if she didn't want to risk her scouts being captured in the background of people's photos she should probably not bring them ,at sunset,to a beach that is a very popular spot for sunset photography.

You should not have taken photos of a group of scouts. You know they're not there with their parents and in that situation the scout leader was responsible for keeping them safe.There might have been children in the group that mustn't be on SM/the internet in order to keep them safe. If you are a photographer you should be aware of this and be considerate.

Popcorncovered · 14/08/2022 19:51

FunnyBeaux · 14/08/2022 17:45

What's the worst that could happen? I mean even if they had the most nefarious intentions (love this phrase), what actual harm do you think could come to your child?

Show quote history

The worst? Well they could be found by someone that shouldn't be able to find them if you put the photos on the internet/ newspaper.

ClareBlue · 14/08/2022 20:08

Oiduntbelieveit · 12/08/2022 07:10

ipo.blog.gov.uk/2019/06/11/copyright-and-gdpr-for-photographers/

In GDPR law, no one is allowed to keep an image of you without your consent. A photo of you is categorised as personal data under GDPR. Check out the link above from the Intellectual Property Office UK.

That's not what that links say at all. There are specific contractual instances where you formed a contract for an image, but not all images taken in public. How do you get consent to keep a picture of 1000 people on a beach.

ClareBlue · 14/08/2022 20:19

GDPR is exempt for personal or household activities. A photo taken in public is not personal information and you can hold it legally without consent.

Billieaskin · 14/08/2022 20:34

Junipercrumble · 12/08/2022 01:01

Exactly!
Inadvertently capturing someone in a photo you are taking of someone you know is not quite the same as deliberately taking a picture or worse, a video clip of someone you dont know, without permission, must be breaking some law regarding privacy?

Show quote history

OP what’s so hard to understand here? You’re still shouting about privacy rights.

I really hope you never post your child’s photos to social media (even if you’re on private)

SoupDragon · 14/08/2022 20:41

must be breaking some law regarding privacy?

What privacy do you think you have in a public space?

IsTheOffDutyDoneYet · 14/08/2022 20:41

I was aware of this.

My best friend has an ex who used to make him ask people to delete their photos if she thought she was in it. Basically someone would take a photo, she may have been in the background. She used to get him to go up to these people and ask them to delete the photos. And he used to do it too! Absolutely batshit. I’ve never met her as it was before I knew him, but they managed to last at least 8 years, no children involved either. Crazy.

rwalker · 14/08/2022 20:49

I’m more astonished you didn’t know

CandyLeBonBon · 14/08/2022 22:48

bobster31 · 14/08/2022 16:08

@CandyLeBonBon @Jumpking - that was my argument with them! It wasn't a public place, it's privately owned property but the police just refused to do anything. They knew exactly who he was, knew his address and was well known to the security staff for similar behaviour. The PC I dealt with told me that as no crime had been committed, his boss wouldn't let him go to speak to the man in question. I couldn't quite believe it! I think it was just a case of not enough police to deal with something they didn't seem serious.

Well in my experience the police are often happy not to pursue things they don't feel are worthwhile, even if crimes have been committed which sounds probable in your scenario. I'm sorry that happened. Clearly there was a problem that no one wanted to own.

sidheandlight · 14/08/2022 23:14

It's a very grey area. Whilst not illegal and a charge within itself. I had a neighbour who was taking photos constantly of all the kids on the street. There was an altercation over it and then it segues into a whole different ballgame.

Gemcat1 · 14/08/2022 23:57

If you are in a public place then there is nothing to stop anyone taking pictures. I know that some schools won't let you take pictures of kids during sports days as they are in PE gear (really!) but there you go. If you have CCTV then under the FOI Act, if someone asks you for a copy of a video during certain times then you are required to provide it.

ProfessorSlocombe · 15/08/2022 01:15

If you are in a public place then there is nothing to stop anyone taking pictures. I know that some schools won't let you take pictures of kids during sports days as they are in PE gear (really!) but there you go.

A school isn't a public place.

sidheandlight · 15/08/2022 01:41

ProfessorSlocombe · 15/08/2022 01:15

If you are in a public place then there is nothing to stop anyone taking pictures. I know that some schools won't let you take pictures of kids during sports days as they are in PE gear (really!) but there you go.

A school isn't a public place.

This is true. A schoolyard is not, some neighbourhood areas are also not public space. Inside a shop is also not a public space where you can just take photos. A lot of the advice on this thread actually is very general. And if the photos are targeted in a public space, then there are other legal avenues. A very grey area. If a person takes a picture of your child in an open public space and profits from it online, then also that is an issue. You are not wholly incorrect OP.

sidheandlight · 15/08/2022 04:49

again mumsnet gives terrible advice, 343 replies minus maybe 40 that are actually incorrect. epic fail.

sidheandlight · 15/08/2022 04:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

tinplantpot · 15/08/2022 05:38

Gemcat1 · 14/08/2022 23:57

If you are in a public place then there is nothing to stop anyone taking pictures. I know that some schools won't let you take pictures of kids during sports days as they are in PE gear (really!) but there you go. If you have CCTV then under the FOI Act, if someone asks you for a copy of a video during certain times then you are required to provide it.

You don't mean FOI. It doesn't apply to private individuals or organisations. You mean under UKGDPR you can do a Data Subject Answer Request (DSAR)

ProfessorSlocombe · 15/08/2022 07:24

sidheandlight · 15/08/2022 04:49

again mumsnet gives terrible advice, 343 replies minus maybe 40 that are actually incorrect. epic fail.

Well it keeps lawyers and barristers in business.

AngelsWithSilverWings · 15/08/2022 18:41

@Popcorncovered I wasn't taking photos of scouts! I was taking photos of my daughter on the beach and general landscape sunset shots at sunset. The scouts may have inadvertently photobombed my shots while they were playing football but that's not my fault! The women was bloody rude to me from the off and acted like she owned the beach and had some sort of right in law to prevent me from practising my hobby there.

Billieaskin · 15/08/2022 18:48

sidheandlight · 14/08/2022 23:14

It's a very grey area. Whilst not illegal and a charge within itself. I had a neighbour who was taking photos constantly of all the kids on the street. There was an altercation over it and then it segues into a whole different ballgame.

How’s that a grey area?

The neighbour didn’t do anything wrong legally.

Popcorncovered · 15/08/2022 19:31

AngelsWithSilverWings · 15/08/2022 18:41

@Popcorncovered I wasn't taking photos of scouts! I was taking photos of my daughter on the beach and general landscape sunset shots at sunset. The scouts may have inadvertently photobombed my shots while they were playing football but that's not my fault! The women was bloody rude to me from the off and acted like she owned the beach and had some sort of right in law to prevent me from practising my hobby there.

Well, 1. The woman wasn't to know that, but obviously she shouldn't have been rude. It's her job to keep her scouts safe and 2. If they were "photo bombing" your shots you did take photos of them, although I realise that you don't feel that you did it on purpose.

But perhaps you could just have aimed your camera in a different direction? There might have been children in the group that really couldn't have anyone taking photos if them, do you think those children should have had to leave the beach?