Page 13 | To be shocked to discover

Junipercrumble · 2022-08-11T23:02:19+00:00

Apparently, it is NOT illegal for a stranger to take photographs or video clips of people, including their children in a public place. 😵 I, like many of my friends are astonished if this is true. I wonder how many people are aware of this?

bobster31 · 13/08/2022 22:08

A few years ago I was in my local Waterstones with my son who was about 10 at the time. A man, who was a complete stranger, came up to him whilst he was browsing the children's books and took a picture of him with his mobile. My son felt very uncomfortable about it and came straight over to tell me. I asked the man if he had taken a photo and he said yes he had. I asked him why he would think that would be ok to do without my permission - he told me "taking photos of nice boys makes me happy"!!!! I tried to get him to delete it but he turned really abusive, upturning a table of books over me then ran out of the shop. When we contacted the shopping centre security and then the police, they knew exactly who he was and that he'd done it before but couldn't do anything because taking photos of children in public is not illegal. Might not be but it still seemed incredibly dodgy to me and you would have thought his actions plus his words would have been a big red possible paedophile flag!!

DaughterofDawn · 13/08/2022 22:12

SortOfAdmireQuagmire · 13/08/2022 21:47

Not particularly, though. My little ones have the most piercing blue eyes despite Mediterranean skin tones, I’d not be surprised at all of someone photographing them, nor bothered about it.

I don’t really even understand why others care. It just seems so precious and ludicrous. The photons that went into the camer weren’t ours, the reconstructed image of their face isn’t ours. It verges on a mental condition to me that someone would be upset about it.

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People start to care when it’s revenge porn our child pornography. A child’s face can easily be photoshopped into a naked body. So yeah it is yours. I don’t want a creep posting my child’s face online for nefarious purposes. Also look up stories of people who became viral memes overnight. I know a story of a woman who worked at a bank and her picture was used for sexual memes. She lost her job over it even though she did not make the meme and she was dressed appropriately. While these are wild and unlikely I still would like to keep my child’s online foot print very small. I’m not saying it should be illegal. I don’t think that can happen without infringing on other rights but… What I am saying is that people care for a very good reason.

ReneBumsWombats · 13/08/2022 22:17

People start to care when it’s revenge porn our child pornography. A child’s face can easily be photoshopped into a naked body.

None of that is candid, true photography in a public space. We've got laws to cover that. They might do with some improvement but it's a separate aspect of law.

Thatswhyimacat · 13/08/2022 22:18

I think the idea is that paedophiles who stalk, photograph and keep images of young children are covered by other and better laws than 'taking a picture of someone in public'.

The idea is that nefarious misuse of images IS a crime, but for the myriad of reasons outlined on this thread, capturing them is not.

jcyclops · 13/08/2022 22:21

Skodacool · 13/08/2022 20:59

Some of the situations on here could be remedied under Section 4A Public Order Act where:

‘Your actions have caused another person to feel harassed, alarmed, or distressed’

Incorrect. A section 4A offence requires that

You have used threatening, abusive, or insulting words or behaviour or disorderly behaviour, towards another person; AND
intended to cause them harassment, alarm or distress; AND
that you have caused that other person harassment, alarm or distress.

If ONLY 3) was required, you could be arrested and prosecuted for going to Macdonalds because you are causing a passing vegan alarm and distress, or a Liverpool player could be arrested after scoring for causing Man City fans alarm and distress.

Incidently, the ACPO advice I quoted higher up the thread was originally aimed at Police Officers, because there were too many reports of them breaking the law through ignorance and demanding to see and/or delete photographs taken by law abiding members of the public.

DaughterofDawn · 13/08/2022 22:46

ReneBumsWombats · 13/08/2022 22:17

People start to care when it’s revenge porn our child pornography. A child’s face can easily be photoshopped into a naked body.

None of that is candid, true photography in a public space. We've got laws to cover that. They might do with some improvement but it's a separate aspect of law.

Yes but once it’s online you’re going to have to jump through hoops to remove it from the internet. So I would rather not get into that situation in the first place. Also I realize revenge porn and child pornography are illegal. I was simply explaining that they are not just pixels on a piece of paper. The image is a person. And photo’s taken for manipulation can and does happen in a public space.

SortOfAdmireQuagmire · 13/08/2022 22:54

DaughterofDawn · 13/08/2022 22:12

People start to care when it’s revenge porn our child pornography. A child’s face can easily be photoshopped into a naked body. So yeah it is yours. I don’t want a creep posting my child’s face online for nefarious purposes. Also look up stories of people who became viral memes overnight. I know a story of a woman who worked at a bank and her picture was used for sexual memes. She lost her job over it even though she did not make the meme and she was dressed appropriately. While these are wild and unlikely I still would like to keep my child’s online foot print very small. I’m not saying it should be illegal. I don’t think that can happen without infringing on other rights but… What I am saying is that people care for a very good reason.

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None of those seem like a good reason to me, more the ravings of a paranoid mentalist.

If someone sticks one of my little children’s faces onto a porn star and has a bit of a fiddle, what of it?

I’ll never know, they’ll never know, so why the paranoia?

And let’s be honest, that’s not happening. You are coming up with ludicrous “what if” situations. That’s a “you” problem that you should probably speak to someone about.

Daisybuttercup12345 · 13/08/2022 23:00

You are very naive not to know this.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 13/08/2022 23:01

I’m also surprised that others don’t know this!

DaughterofDawn · 13/08/2022 23:05

SortOfAdmireQuagmire · 13/08/2022 22:54

None of those seem like a good reason to me, more the ravings of a paranoid mentalist.

If someone sticks one of my little children’s faces onto a porn star and has a bit of a fiddle, what of it?

I’ll never know, they’ll never know, so why the paranoia?

And let’s be honest, that’s not happening. You are coming up with ludicrous “what if” situations. That’s a “you” problem that you should probably speak to someone about.

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This actually did happen to someone close to me and they did find out about it and they tried to kill themselves over it. I don’t know what your age is but people 20 and younger deal with this a lot more than we realize. They were photoshopped with a dick in their mouth because they had a shocked expression on their face and kids at school passed out around and it circulated for a few months and people kept reuploading it. So no lol. It’s really not that paranoid or delusional. And you might not care but your kid might.

iliketartan · 13/08/2022 23:08

Fanning myself out of shock after your shocking insight OP

BooneyBeautiful · 13/08/2022 23:54

Junipercrumble · 12/08/2022 00:17

If this is true, I literally have no words.

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There was a local primary school prom a few weeks ago and one of my FB friends posted some photos of their daughter taken from outside the school. In one of them I spotted one of my neighbours in the background (his daughter also went to that school). So yes, it was posted on social media along with lots of other people in the background.

Julz1969 · 14/08/2022 01:39

There is no expectation of privacy in public. every where you go there is camera's etc: Tesco, post office, banks, dash cams the are every place.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 14/08/2022 01:55

I’m surprise you didn’t know that OP.

How do you think photographers and news crews would do their job otherwise?

Tomasinabombadil · 14/08/2022 08:32

I follow a few friends on FB who have young children. They often post photos of their family & children at various events & outings. If other random children are in the photo then that child’s identity is disguised by pasting a smiley face🙂over their image, before uploading to FB.

RachaelN · 14/08/2022 08:54

I'm aware this isn't illagal. However we went out last weekend to a busy tourist spot in Aberdeen shire and a man deliberately kneeled down in front of my kids with a big camera and started to take pictures. My kids are 7 and 9. No permission seeked and as you can imagine I was seething. Yes I caused a scene, and he walked away very embarrassed. He was not a member of staff, just an Italian tourist. I know this because I heard him speaking to his friend as they walked away.

Gardenglove · 14/08/2022 09:13

twoandcooplease · 12/08/2022 00:57

The more you write though I'm starting to think I also maybe didn't know it was legal either

I knew media coverage like I exampled in my pp is legal but you're talking about someone intentionally taking a picture of your child. Not by accident and not in the background but going over and taking a photo - I don't think I knew that was allowed
It's really not ok and if I phoned the police to report someone doing this to my ds would they just laugh at me and say they can't help? Not come to take a statement or anything??

I think this kind of behaviour would be viewed as rather strange and disturbing.
Photography aside, If a person was targeting an individual child like this maybe it would be seen as harassment/stalking. The police might look to see if the person doing it was on the sex offenders list, or ask why they were doing it at least?! I think this would perhaps be viewed a bit differently to just taking pictures of your kids and catching others in the background etc, which is of course entirely legal...

TrulyFubar · 14/08/2022 09:26

There is no expectation of privacy in public and nobody needs your permission to capture your image. That's it.

AngelsWithSilverWings · 14/08/2022 10:11

I see so often on local Facebook groups where someone's posts a photo of kids up to no good and then posters line up to tell her she has broken the law by publishing the photo. It's such a widely believed myth.

I'm a hobby photographer and am always out and about taking landscape shots and bird photography on our local beach.

One evening I was on the beach with my young daughter and was wandering around with my camera taking photos of her and of the landscape as the sun was setting.

A local scout group was on the beach playing football on the wet sand where the tide had gone out ( it's a thing here - they call it mud football)

Scout leader saw me with my camera and very rudely demanded I put my camera away. I refused and she demanded to see what I had taken. I explained politely that I was just with my young daughter getting some nice sunset photos of her and the landscape and had every right to take photos on the beach. She then asked me where I was going to publish them and that if any of the scouts were in them I'd have to get permission from their parents. She also said I was breaking the law taking photos of the scouts. I put her right on the law but she was so angry and rude to me. I had no plan to publish anything but I think my professional looking camera made her assume I would.

If she had come up to me politely and asked if I could try to avoid getting any of the scouts in my shots I would have gladly tried to. In the end I told her that if she didn't want to risk her scouts being captured in the background of people's photos she should probably not bring them ,at sunset,to a beach that is a very popular spot for sunset photography.

AmberMcAmber · 14/08/2022 10:15

If you spot someone taking pictures of your child you can politely ask them what their business is there, if one of the kids is theirs etc and ask them
to delete the offending pic(s) being in the public is being in the public
if you are concerned by the behaviour of someone, you can take a pic/video of them, note as much info as you can (direction from where they came/left, accent, distinguishing features, etc etc) and report to police
most genuine photographers would delete a pic if the parent/child was distressed about it

ProfessorSlocombe · 14/08/2022 10:56

AmberMcAmber · 14/08/2022 10:15

If you spot someone taking pictures of your child you can politely ask them what their business is there, if one of the kids is theirs etc and ask them
to delete the offending pic(s) being in the public is being in the public
if you are concerned by the behaviour of someone, you can take a pic/video of them, note as much info as you can (direction from where they came/left, accent, distinguishing features, etc etc) and report to police
most genuine photographers would delete a pic if the parent/child was distressed about it

There are are almost an infinite number of things you can do. However not all of them are supported by the framework of the law, and this is one of them.

You can ask - of course you can. I can ask you for a million pounds and your Clubcard number. But - as with someone taking photographs in public - you don't have any reason to comply.

Shame I'm old. This looks like developing into a new freeman of the land myth. But I suspect a few colleagues pensions are being boosted ....

Jumpking · 14/08/2022 10:59

bobster31 · 13/08/2022 22:08

A few years ago I was in my local Waterstones with my son who was about 10 at the time. A man, who was a complete stranger, came up to him whilst he was browsing the children's books and took a picture of him with his mobile. My son felt very uncomfortable about it and came straight over to tell me. I asked the man if he had taken a photo and he said yes he had. I asked him why he would think that would be ok to do without my permission - he told me "taking photos of nice boys makes me happy"!!!! I tried to get him to delete it but he turned really abusive, upturning a table of books over me then ran out of the shop. When we contacted the shopping centre security and then the police, they knew exactly who he was and that he'd done it before but couldn't do anything because taking photos of children in public is not illegal. Might not be but it still seemed incredibly dodgy to me and you would have thought his actions plus his words would have been a big red possible paedophile flag!!

I think they're wrong here. A shopping centre is private property, therefore they get to dictate the rules inside it in regard photos.

SD1978 · 14/08/2022 11:02

Yup, that's why there are so many videos on the internet of people losing their shit, either rightly or wrongly. Did you think any of them consented?

Jumpking · 14/08/2022 11:05

My XH is a crappy amateur photographer, so I've been aware of this for years, as he was asked several times to stop taking photos. It surprises me how many people don't know about it.

My daughter was about 7, being snapped in Hong Kong by a guy. I stood in front of her to block his line of shot. I know how Photoshop works, sadly.

CandyLeBonBon · 14/08/2022 11:07

I think they're wrong here. A shopping centre is private property, therefore they get to dictate the rules inside it in regard photos.

I'm surprised if he was causing damage and overturning tables that the police weren't called for breach of the peace? There's plenty of laws he broke there that could've allowed the police to arrest him - especially if he was known to them.