MIL upset at me seeing DH's SIL & kids

[LiarLiarKnickersAblaze]

Sad circumstances in the family. Early last year, after a two year battle with depression, DH's father passed away by suicide. They live in a different country and this occurred across covid, and MIL didn't share with her two sons the ins and outs of what was happening with their father so it was a massive shock to them.

Fast forward to this year - June. There's always been tension between MIL and DH's SIL. They've been snipey/grumpy with each other for years. They both critique the other a lot, and it's simmered in the background. With her DH gone, MIL struggled to be as patient with her and snapped at her. The situation involved my daughter (I wasn't there) but apparently SIL made snipey comments to DD (7) when DH & DD visited e.g. should be eating pasta properly with sauce/her dd's did. MIL told SIL to "stop making negative comments about DD". It wasn't well-received, SIL was crying, her DH was cross.

MIL and BIL have chatted since & they have both shared lots of things they are feeling about the other. MIL's sister is ill at the moment so she told BIL she needed space.

Now it's August and I'm visiting with DH and DD. I suggested to DH that I take DD to see her cousins for a coffee/park play date as they are close. I asked if it would be OK and to check with his DM. He said it would be fine (I later find out he didn't check with her directly). We agreed as DD is an only, her relationship with her cousins is really important and she might not see them again until next year. It's nice for the girls and I will be there if SIL says anything snipey (I've only personally experienced her be a bit snipey once when dd was having a mega tantrum.) There was no expectation for DH (who has taken his mother's side and out of loyalty won't come) or DM to come.

I mentioned last night to her that I would be popping by for a coffee with DD to see her cousins. MIL was extremely upset, won't speak to us (only my DH when I'm not there), she went off for a drive to cool off. She says I have betrayed her as she was sticking up for DD (the argument isn't really about that - they have bigger issues & she says she is not ready to listen to her son's feelings about them). She says that none of us know what she's going through, she opened up about more scarring things that happened in the lead up to FIL's death/things he said. My DH came out of the conversation with her fragile and snipey to me but later apologised. I'm getting the silent treatment from MIL.

TBH I've always felt things between MIL and SIL are tense. I'm unsure whether to cancel seeing SIL & cousins. I hate all this arguing, MIL has said she doesn't want any pressure to heal the relationship so are we expected to stop the girls seeing each other until then? I was thinking of maybe popping by for an hour then picking DM some flowers up on the way back.

Perspective greatly appreciated. It's created a tense atmosphere in the house.

When I was about your girl's age, our family had a huge bust up.

My cousins who were like my elder sisters was permanently severed & I didn't see them for over 20 years.

This had a massive impact on me growing up & internalised it as being my fault.

I have never forgiven my family for the trauma of having my cousins taken away.

That they allowed their selfish, silly family fighting to override the important relationship I had with my cousins.

Their fights were not of our making & we were. the collateral damage.

They never stopped to think of the impact their family fighting would have on the children.

For me it felt like my siblings died & I wasn't allowed to speak of them again.

What your MIL is doing is so wrong & shortsighted, there no words to describe her piss poor attitude

Do not send this woman flowers & pander to her idiotic behaviour.

To resent your daughter having a playdate with her cousin shows how deeply selfish she is.

It sounds like your MIL has narcissistic traits & enjoys being the gatekeeper/matriarch of the family. My grandmother is a similarly manipulative woman who can't lie straight in bed & enjoys having everyone bow to her whims.

Please be your daughter's advocate & do not enter into any notion that you will be keeping the cousins apart.

Also your husband sounds like a wet lettuce who needs to push back on his overbearing mother. He deserves a stern word for letting you both down here.

This post has seriously triggered me, as am your daughter in this situation & I never got over it, just buried it deep down & it exploded later in life.

What is she so worried about? Is she worried a few home truths are going to emerge from you and SIL chatting?
She’s acting very strangely, controlling, punishing your dd, this needs addressing. Your dd has done nothing wrong here. Neither have you.

I'd laugh at them all. Bunch of bloody children they are, sniping and bitching about each other, crying over hurt feelings. They need to grow up and act like adults.

@saraclara

I think saying that you appreciated her having your DD's back would be a welcome acknowledgment. And that whatever is happening among the adults, the two girls are each other's family and need the relationship.

I said this to her last night and about the girls seeing each other (they usually see each almost every day when we visit). However, she was upset last night so will re-iterate with flowers later today. I appreciate the tension but I don't want DD in the middle of it as it's not fair to centre the argument on those events (and therefore bring me into the fray) - this is about stuff way bigger and longer rooted, and it will take time to find a new balance in the family. I really hope MIL and BIL talk soon.

I would just get on with your day and plans as normal and ignore her behaviour. If she has never behaved like this before, then it may well be linked to grief, but that doesn't mean you have to pander to it. Grief does not give someone a pass to control other people. I would be concerned if you let her have her way this time, it would set a precedent for every time you do something she doesn't like. She will probably come around when she sees that nothing terrible came from you meeting up with your SiL and niece.

Similar-ish family dynamic here. Don't buy flowers. You don't need permission to see your SIL or her kids. Don't kowtow to anyone. You are putting the kids first and that is great!

It took me therapy to get to this point. You have a right to your own relationships with each of them and should never have to ask permission from MIL or anyone - it's not your feud!

The FIL died and they’re being so petty about a comment/disagreement??

I would tell your MIL that you’re happy she stuck up for DD but it was a one off and tensions were high and you’re not going to discuss this any further with any of them and you would like your DD to have a relationship with both her and her cousin.

@GeriSignfeld sending you lots of love, sorry to be a trigger for you this morning & thank you for sharing your story from the eyes of the children's perspective. It's helped me feel stronger that I'm doing the right thing for dd. Have a lovely day x

MIL is still emotional and it is understandable that she is fragile.
However. You don't need her permission to take your DD to meet up with her cousins, and the fact that you aren't insisting/intending on DH going with you so he can stay with his mum is sensitive and fine.

I wouldn't have asked permission, tbh, i would have told her much closer to the time, and not been around for feedback. If MIL feels you and SIL are going to gripe about her then she must be feeling guilty about something? So a) don't do that and b) don't talk to MIL about it much more than maybe showing a photo or two of the cousins playing together?

It does sound awful for MIL and her sons, but family relationships need to be worked at, especially when distance is involved.

Powerful reason to stand your ground op.

Hope you reconnected in later years Geri

Is your mil one of these women who cries and creates drama to get her own way?
I wouldn't have asked her permission, if she is sulking with her dil its her problem, no one else's. Just go to the meet up and ignore the drama.
I am sorry about your fil though, this must be very difficult for her. She needs professional help to deal with this.

She says she's worried me and SIL are going to chat, and I'm going to take SIL's point of view and she can't handle that

Is the MIL definition of reason for fall out absolutely true? Did anyone else hear it?

@LiarLiarKnickersAblaze That's very kind of you to say & good on you for standing up for your daughter. You sound like a great mum. All the best with the family fighting issues, understand how difficult they are to handle, older people can be so stuck in their ways.

@Sswhinesthebest Several years ago, one of my cousins was accepted back into the family, as she became estranged from her family, so she was welcomed back. We are still learning to navigate our new relationship & getting to know each other as adults, so many years lost. Doubt we will ever have the relationship we should have had, where you have a lifetime growing up together. Am deeply grateful to have one of them back in my life, even if the "sisterly" bond is still broken.
My other cousin is still not accepted back into the family. My grandma is on her last legs & really hope she will attend the funeral, so may have a chance to see her there.

Anyways didn't want to derail OP's thread & hope OP's MIL simmers down soon, so the kids can get on with their playdates in peace!

This. I would rise above it. Pretend every is fine and smile a lot. Fires need oxygen, narcs need attention.

My advice is to draw a Venn diagram. You are in one circle (with your DD and your DH), your MiL is in another and your SIL is in a third, with her kids. They don't all have to overlap. They might intersect at one point which is where you all meet up together (I'd guess that that would be a small intersection). There would be a part of the diagram that your circle overlaps with your SiL's circle that doesn't overlap with your MiL. That's the bit that you're trying to maintain. It doesn't involve MiL at all. You shouldn't feel the need to involve her in the ins and outs of a friendship that is separate to the one you have with MiL.

I realise that maths doesn't always work to describe a situation but I hope the above makes sense.

I really have little patience with all this not speaking nonsense. Either your BIL - your husbands brother and your MIL's son - is a terrible person with a terrible wife and terrible children, or your MIL is in a very bad place/a complete narcissist.

If it's the first then make up your own mind.

If it's anything else other than the first, behave like decent humans and go and spend time with the people who have also lost their father/FIL in desperate circumstances.

I don't think your DH is coming out of this very well at all, to be honest.

Flowers? Because you want your daughter to see her cousins?

This is madness, don't get into pacifying her with flowers.

She had two sons, it is entirely reasponable for their kids to see and know each other. She can't control you so she is using quite abusive tactics to stonewall you and your daughter. Don't collude with this, go see whoever you want to see.

Why is this all about your husband’s SIL?

Where is her husband, your husband’s brother, your MIL’s son in all this?

Is he alive?

Surely that’s answer here? You stop doing all the wifework and let your husband and his brother have some nice sibling time taking their kids out?

It’s understandable she’s upset about the loss of her husband, but being huffy with a child is completely unreasonable.

Was your MIL controlling in family relationships prior to being widowed?

This is the sort of straight talking I love

You cannot sacrifice your DD's relationship with her cousins because of your MIL. My DM sacrificed my relationship with her DM (she didn't see it like that) and I and I have never forgiven her for it.

It’s none of MIL business what you do with your time.

The bit that would concern me is her extending the ill feeling to a 7 year old who has done precisely nothing wrong and actually has no control over seeing SIL, her cousins or anything else.

I would see your SIL and the cousins as planned, carry on treating MIL as you normally would, possibly try to talk to her and explain that while you appreciate her defence of your DD it is best when possible not to embroil children in the fallings out of adults and that a good relationship between the cousins is important to you.

Controlling and using children to hurt your SIL? Cold Shouldering you because you are not co-operating in her campaign? dragging you into it to make SIL feel alienated?

Your family are excusing this appalling behaviour because she is dealing with grief and no one knows what to do, but what she is doing is unacceptable. She needs therapy to deal with the grief, not take it out in a very nasty way on everyone else, particularly the children. Being kind to someone does not mean following every order they give. She needs support, but not this kind.
Instead of getting embroiled in this feud (which just encourages it) Are there any practical things that can be done for her, finding counseling? Places she could visit when she feels alone, or to talk to others in the same position?

You don’t know what happened in this pasta situation, your MIL told you that SIL snapped at your DD but it might be not the case and the context could be very different.
My mum always does this - she tells different accounts to me and my sister about what happened. We usually “compare notes” afterwards. I’m in a habit to question her every word. So I wonder if your MIL doesn’t want you to hear SIL’s account of events…
I wouldn’t buy flowers, I would be nice and polite but firm and short, I wouldn’t go into lengthy explanations. It’s your decision, as parents and it’s nothing to do with MIL.
What do you personally think about SIL by the way? Do you like her? Was she nice to you and your daughter before?