To think women are more toxic than people would like to admit?

[MarthaMayver]

I'd like to start by saying by no means are all women toxic, I'm a female myself and have always been a huge supporter of feminism and "sisterhood" if you will. However the more behaviour I witness from women, I'm starting to stray away from seeing them as allies.

I have worked in female dominated sectors my entire life and have constantly had to witness cliques, gossiping, power plays, passive aggressiveness, and downright bullying. I had to leave my last job as it was affecting my mental health so badly.

I always thought this was just part and parcel of working in groups. However I started a new job last year, with an equal spread of male and female colleagues and there has been none of this. I'm now wondering if the problem with all of my previous workplaces was the fact that they were female dominated.

To me, it's very obvious in person how women favour men over their own gender, regardless of how much "female empowerment" and "Women Supporting Women" is preached these days. For example, they will let men get away with mistakes they wouldn't let other women get away with. Male incompetence is often seen as "cute", whereas the same behaviour coming from a woman would be laughed or sneered at.

There are so many stories coming out in recent years of mothers favouring their sons over their daughters, and at worst bullying and abusing their daughters whilst worshiping their sons. I now think back to my own childhood and I can remember many occasions where my mother would put me down for something, while supporting my male siblings for doing the same thing. There were also a lot of sly, underhand insults that I didn't realize at the time, that were never directed towards my brothers.

I'm prepared to be told IBU, but I'm also very interested in knowing how many people agree, or if anyone has any similar experiences.

some people are toxic. It’s human nature. But I don’t see why you’d want to combat toxic women and not toxic men?

Wow - I have worked in heavily female dominated environments for most of my working life and definitely have never experienced the kind of toxicity and nastiness described here. My worst manager by far was a man, and the vast majority of my female managers (and colleagues) have been incredibly supportive. I definitely wouldn't agree that female dominated environments are toxic by nature.

I don't like the word toxic used either about women or masculinity. It doesn't tell me anything about a person or their motivations.

I don’t, but toxic women are the subject of the thread and I’m being accused of derailing.

@Pumperthepumper I don't see the word 'toxic' in the original post, unless I need my glasses.

Haha, yes I do, I see it now.

"We know that women gave orders to beat slaves and that women expected other women to give their seat up on the bus for them."

Wow I actually didn't know this. Very good post as a whole.

When I was in my 20s and 30s I would’ve agreed with you. Now I’m in my 50s I love the support and camaraderie I have with my female colleagues, friends and relatives. Women grow much more kinder, empathetic, open minded and just more humble with age and wisdom.

Vulnerability has a lot to do with it (see Brene Brown) - when we feel safe enough and world-weary enough to be honest and vulnerable with each other, (and ourselves), wonderful magic things happen amongst women.

Just limit the damage in the meantime by trying not to right off other women and calling them ‘toxic’. Men actually do most damage to women.

Women and men are way more judgemental about women bosses than men bosses.

People can be toxic to each other, however I think it’s more overt with women because we are generally the social instigators and organisers much of the time.

But men are just as toxic. You only need to look at politics! Or any male dominated industry! Sometimes coming to actual blows.

I believe it’s our personal job as human beings to be as fair and non-toxic as possible so that the world is filled with less of that nonsense.

www.history.com/news/white-women-slaveowners-they-were-her-property
Here is an interesting article on white female slave owners if you are interested @MarthaMayver

The evidence you linked is a single workplace survey done in the US in 2014. So yes this is an area where little study has been done.

Interestingly, following your links led to this gem “women bullied women in 68% of cases”

In addition, the study parameters was as follows “workplace bullying was defined as repeated mistreatment; abusive conduct that is threatening, humiliating, intimidating, work sabotage or verbal abuse….referring to its most serious forms only”

Your “serious concern” about female domestic abuse victims women committing suicide is a single news article, which carries as much weight imho as the news article revealing that one of Priti Patels aides was bullied by her into attempting suicide and then paid £25k to keep quiet about it. Suicides occur for a multitude of reasons, there’s no logic in saying that because one reason exists for suicide, then another reason cannot exist or be a problem too.

There are so many stories coming out in recent years of mothers favouring their sons over their daughters, and at worst bullying and abusing their daughters whilst worshiping their sons. I now think back to my own childhood and I can remember many occasions where my mother would put me down for something, while supporting my male siblings for doing the same thing. There were also a lot of sly, underhand insults that I didn't realize at the time, that were never directed towards my brothers.

Not work related but my MIL is definitely like this with my wife. Brother in law is golden bollox, can't do a thing wrong and is the obvious favourite. My wife gets a daily drip, drip of verbal abuse, criticises her parenting and can't praise her for anything.

She makes my youngest feel like crap too as she's quite open that my eldest is her favourite. Gives her money to do nice things but then forgets about my youngest.

But it's not gender specific as my poor father in law has been mentally destroyed during their 60 odd years together. Frankly she's a nasty vile piece of work and I can't bloody stand her.

I totally get that us men are bad (as a class) but that really has zero meaning or relevance when my wife is on the verge of therapy because of a lifetime of verbal torture. Her confidence is shot and the psychological damage is immeasurable IMO.

So all the posts on this threads are not examples? Does every woman posting here need to contact a reporter and have a news article written on her story?

I’ve always worked in male dominated environments. For context, I am the only female out of 65 employees at current job. All the behaviours the OP mentions in her first post I witness constantly, with the addition of actual aggression & not just passive! I see the difference is that men (generally obviously) tackle things more head on, thrash it out so to speak & move pass the issue quicker than women in similar circumstances.

What would you like to see done to combat toxic women in the workplace?

I've had a mixture of experiences working within a female dominated workplace. Theres been some where its been great to be part of a close group. There's usually one that always competitive even if its not always obvious at first. Plus I have noticed whether its work or school playground is the way some womens friendships feel threatened by the newbie. You can spot them a mile off as straight away they tell you how long they've been friends with such and such as if to say keep away thats MY friend. Makes me chortle tbh and then I just stay away. Can't be doing with game playing.

I think it's more a culture of bitchiness that is inherent to some sectors or individual offices.

I worked in one place with 100% female directors. It was the bitchiest, cliquiest most sexist place I've ever worked. One of the directors told her male associate he wasn't taking his career seriously enough when he asked for 2 weeks paternity... in front of the the whole office.

It was awful. But I don't think that necessarily was about women. I think that was about a very dysfunctional company run by four different personalities that don't get ok. It rubbed off on the staff.

I do think that women do sometimes sabotage ourselves though. I think there's more judgement on looks. There are definitely women who use their looks and bodies to get ahead.

Expand the definition of bullying to include micro-aggressions, exclusion and encouraging self harm for one. It doesn’t have to be a threat or intimidating or sabotage or humiliating swearing/verbal abuse to be bullying. There have been cases of female bullies getting their victim to commit suicide by encouraging them to self harm or take their life by making “helpful” suggestions as to what method to use and then saying oh you’ll be so much happier in heaven just do it. One woman even hung herself for constantly being excluded because she wasn’t “posh enough”.

Expand the definition only for female perpetrators?

Watch Parliament “debates” as the MPs are a good example of rampant toxic insidious bullying without crossing the line into “official actionable bullying”

In fact it’s almost a contest (for men and women both) on how creatively they can insult and tear down each other. These are the people in the most important workplace in the country and it is a toxic wasteland. And what happens at the top, is sure to roll down the ranks and set the vibes in all the government departments.

Well 'women' make up half of the human race. So to say that all women are one thing or another seems pretty ludicrous really.

If you are a young attractive woman you may find men treat you better in the workplace. That will change as you get older.

No.

So then how are you going to target women specifically?