To think that very few people can manage £4200 energy bills

[Butterflyfluff]

news.sky.com/story/energy-bills-forecast-to-rise-even-higher-than-previously-thought-12668906

This simply isn’t manageable for the majority of people.

Where’s this going to end?

But it doesn't have to be, its a choice Govts/Business can make to change, if nurses and carers didn't need food banks 20 years ago, we can change so they don't now.

Up to the voter.

@CravenRaven that’s a fair point about choice.

There are people - like you and me - who have the time and the inclination to take charge of their energy usage and payments as you describe. And then there is everybody else.

When the energy market was liberalised, the idea was that competition would force prices down, because consumers would move to suppliers who charged them less. What actually happened is that more than half of people have never changed supplier, not once.

Some suppliers started to offer fixed tariffs, the idea being that people would pay a small premium in return for certainty to help with budgeting. What actually happened is that some suppliers offered cheap fixes to attract customers, and then increased their variable rates, so that the people who had never switched were subsidising the canny people who did.

So the energy price cap was introduced, to limit the profits suppliers could make from the majority of people, who didn’t have the time or the inclination to check the market and seek out good deals. What actually happened was that when wholesale prices soared, suppliers were forced to sell below cost to the majority of their customers, and many went bust.

The majority of people - I suspect a large majority - don’t want to do the work of monitoring their usage and following price forecasts and working out how much they need to pay to keep up. I know that to be true, even though I recommend that they do it! And it appears that the suppliers’ algorithms are a bit crap, so that people can end up with unreasonably large credit balances, or in arrears despite always paying what they’ve been asked - something Ofgem has pulled them up about.

But, on balance - isn’t it better if the default situation is that suppliers increase DD’s before the price cap goes up, given how much it is going to go up, and the fact that October’s increase is unlikely to be the last?

I really hate to have to say this but Trump was right when he warned europe was to reliant on Russian energy. Europe laughed at him when we should have listened.

Its beyond ridiculous. My family joint income is £42 k per year. We couldn’t afford £4 k on energy, it’s simply not doable.

Surely many millions of families won’t be able to pay it?

Surely the government knows this? I don’t understand why this is being kicked into the long grass, I dont know hardly anyone that can afford to pay that money on a few months time.

Don’t millions of households just literally fall into file poverty? What would happen? They can’t turn off the power for all of us can they?

Surely emergency situations need drastic decisions. Apparently Boris attended a meeting today with the big energy companies but not much was achieved because he doesn’t want to make any big decisions as it’s down to the new PM. WTF?

I wish they’d stop talking about pensioners and vulnerable people needing extra help. Of course they do.

But surely everyone needs help?! Any family on less than £50k a year would struggle wouldn’t they?

And what about businesses, pubs restaurants, hair salons etc? Will they just all shut up shop? Millions of people out of work or freezing in their homes? ! Why isn’t more bing done ?!!

Surely these big energy companies must see that there will be a point where many millions just won’t be able to pay?

What really brought it home to me was a chap on the news yesterday saying that come January, an average house that has prepayment meters will need to be topping up £50 every 3 days to keep warm. Its a disaster, people won't put on their heating and will end up with cold damp mouldy homes.

The savings gap is massive, and people on low incomes are much more likely to have few if any savings. And are much more likely to have prepayment meters.

So having to find £500 in the winter months to top up the prepayment meter will be very hard, despite Government support.

You probably know this, but you don't necessarily need diagnosis for PIP,it's about how the conditions affect you. If you've been turned down,might be worth challenging/appealing/ reapplying.

The whole thing is a desperate worry and it is absolutely not OK for the government to put off declaring if and how they will help people just so that they can spend the summer having the most ridiculous leadership contest we've ever seen. Fuck Johnson. Fuck Sunak. Fuck Truss.

It is also absolutely not OK for Labour to be saying "yes, we'll make a damning speech about this.... next week...maybe".

In a GE I'd vote Labour but I'd be holding my nose while I did it, because Starmer's leadership seems to have been one long game of being told he's playing the long game and just wait until he's really unleased.

If he's not fighting with every ounce of energy he's got right now - when we are in such an awful mess - then when the f will he?

I can't believe the only politician making real noise about this is someone who was Prime Minister 12 bloody years ago.

Absolutely correct. And Labour really need to keep the pressure on. And the other main parties.

Johnson has completely given up and doesn’t give a fuck, whilst the Tory leadership race continues. And it’s only Tory party members that have a say anyway.

Its disgusting that this leadership contest is going ahead now, and the fact we have to wait until September. We need action here and now.

Regarding top up meters being £50 every three days or so , there absolutely no way any one in UC will afford that, and I can’t see how the government could even begin to fund that kind of bill.

Parliament isn't back from recess until 5th September
The price cap will be announced late August and will kick in from the 1st October.

We also have the party conferences - which disrupt the normal running of Parliament

It's a mess

Come on Liz Delivery,Delivery,Delivery (terms and conditions apply and btw I'm worth 8.4 million quid) - we'll chuck a few scraps to the paupers in due course.

That makes sense,and how I usually like to do it: but if this gets as bumpy as it looks like it may, I'd rather put the difference between usage and forward payments into my bank account for when used,as I don't want a credit balance if some of the utility companies are at risk of going bust,again .

The very act of making sure you aren't in too much credit if that takes place on a mass scale in a safe way of creating a 'Don't Pay' scenario. The energy companies will lose 100s of millions of money that they had access to which they will no longer have. Since they chucked me over from Utility Point to EDF I'm tempted to pay my bill quarterly and then only when it goes to final payment as on the SVR there is no longer any incentive to go to dd's.

Martin Lewis and others endorsing Don’t Pay to the lowest earners should think many will be on pre payment anyway

Don’t Pay and no supply

Are you sure Martin Lewis is on board with the don't pay crowd, it doesn't sound likely?

Quite often his image and name are used to legitimise things he has no agreement with but they are illegitimatly trading on his trust capital.

Martin Lewis isn't 'endorsing' Don't Pay, far from the opposite. He won't recommend anything that could destroy people's credit records, have them in court and on more expensive prepay meters that take away the option to spread the high winter cost throughout the year.

He's lobbying Government to wake up to the catastrophe that is unfolding, making people aware of their rights and signposting them towards all the possible help available.

FFS. Quite the opposite that is.

Martin isn't endorsing that you'll find the opposite is true. Many of them are can't pay so won't pay so if that's the case why not organise and join a movement for solidarity and support rather than suffer alone? I see the DM has turned it's ire on Martin now for speaking truth to power. It was ever thus but the Sun is talking about 'greedy energy bosses' and highlighting their pay and remuneration. Murdoch is getting ready to set the narrative for La Truss.

You’re right I just googled, I don’t follow him at all

I have seen a fair few posts on here re I’m doing what Martin Lewis says and not going to pay etc

So I’ll amend my post to - anyone else who endorses Don’t Pay should think about pre payment metres

But it's not a support group, it's a political group, mobilising to encourage the poorest to act against their own best interest.

Meters..

Four yes agree

That's not a bad idea actually, I'm going to look into doing it.

Like I have said before folk should be careful about not paying as that can have implications down the line. But Poll Tax non-payment got rid of the poll tax and ultimately Thatcher and provides agency and support rather than despair. Some will cancel their dd's and pay quarterly and at the last moment. If a million do variants of this then we are on our way to provoking change. The plan is to cancel the dd's on 1st October simultaneously how you handle payment after that is up to each individual. Collective mass action.

5 views on the Don't Pay campaign - that highlights there is a safe way to take part that won't damage your credit score. Since I've given my details to the local group it will be beholden if I got to a meeting to make sure that on the ground folk are fully cognisant of how far they want to participate and the implications thereof. This feels much more positive than the inchoate Brexit leave rage and will hold the government's feet to the fire which is the ultimate target.

www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/12/people-give-their-views-on-dont-pay-uk-fuel-bills