To think that very few people can manage £4200 energy bills

[Butterflyfluff]

news.sky.com/story/energy-bills-forecast-to-rise-even-higher-than-previously-thought-12668906

This simply isn’t manageable for the majority of people.

Where’s this going to end?

Funny that... Diesel €1.726 in France... or £1.46... you'll have to remind me how much diesel costs in the UK.

Relatives & friends live in France, electricity has indeed been held low.

You seem like a climate change denier & i posted what the Met Office said about Holland, which does fly in the face of your somewhat exaggerated artic experience...... How many people live year round in these ski resorts? or in the Pico's ?

We should have invested in more nuclear 10-15 years ago. The next best time to invest in it is right now.

Unfortunately, we have bet the farm on an assumption that was true for 40 years, but is no longer true - that gas is the best and cheapest base load fuel to tide us over into the renewable age.

Nuclear NIMBYism is a threat to our energy security and prosperity, it should be completely overruled.

True re housing

This is a consideration re sectors. I have seen some posts talking about U.K. not manufacturing enough but it is energy intensive to have it driving economy - especially on Russian energy

At least with professional services you can just fire up zoom should it be needed it doesn’t have to halt for much

What I don't understand is why noone is asking for the 17% green levy to be scrapped. It would knock almost a 5th of the cost of people's bills.

Only for a very short time. Stopping subsidies for non-fossil-fuel sources of electricity would make us even more reliant on gas, thereby driving the price up even more rapidly.

Funny that... Diesel €1.726 in France... or £1.46... you'll have to remind me how much diesel costs in the UK

Diesel was about like-for-like with Scotland when we were there in June. Fuel prices have come down a bit generally since then.

Nuclear NIMBYism is a threat to our energy security and prosperity, it should be completely overruled.

Tell us how you're proposing to pay for decommissioning new nuclear power stations at the end of their life.

"It will cost the UK taxpayer £132bn to decommission all the UK’s civil nuclear sites and the work will not be completed for another 120 years, according to latest estimates." (Public Accounts Committee, 2022)

Nuclear is a very short-sighted solution: it provides relatively cheap electricity now in exchange for practically infinite costs to our grandchildren.

It's also not 17%.

The SOCIAL and environmental levy which provides a lot of support for vulnerable customers is £153 of the price cap of £1971.

Which is not 17%

fullfact.org/economy/green-levies/

Decommissioning of future sites won't cost anywhere near as much as the existing ones that were built decades ago before a 'cradle to grave' approach to dealing with the waste was a thing, especially if the small modular reactors get up and running.

They've been trying to find a site for deep geological disposal of radioactive waste for nearly a decade but that gets tied up NIMBYism too, despite all the waste already existing and being held in temporary warehouses waiting for a site to be agreed and built.

That's rather selectively framed, @NoNotHimTheOtherOne

Here's the way the government website, rather than the hysterical Guardian article you're quoting from, states the same fact:

"The 2019 forecast is that future clean-up across the UK will cost around £124 billion spread across the next 120 years or so, a slight increase on the previous year’s estimate."

So we have to shoulder about $1Bn worth of clean up costs, per year, over the next century or so, as we decommission existing and planned plants. Entirely reasonable.

Does anyone know what the actual price per unit of Electricity is meant to be in January?

I’ve googled but can only find articles saying what the average bill may be.

Unit prices are yet to be published as Ofgem still has to determine how they will spread the cost across unit prices and standing charges.

www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/989725/shell-bp-british-gas-bosses-summoned-by-government-with-talk-of-new-windfall-tax-989725.html

@Butterflyfluff thank you!
I did look on a comparison websites and was quoted over 70p per unit for a 12 month fix!!

So basically look what you used last year and what is cost and double it

and that’s Roughlt the price

The diesel situation will change going into winter when the US wises up and stops sending so much to Europe. Their stocks have consistently dropped all year for petrol and distillate, and the only reason the UK and EU haven’t had shortages is due to US imports.

Yup

By keep an eye on it. Because if prices go up even futher than expect in Jan 23 or beyond then you won't have finished paying off your winter usage before being hit with even higher prices for your summer usage.

Supply aside, the reason forecourt Diesel is cheaper in Europe is because they have cut duty far more than we have & they have more control on forcing companies to cut prices when wholesale falls.

I thought the EU didn't import that much from USA and the pinch will come when EU bans Russian refined oil products by next year.

Has that changed v recently?

A little of column A…

…and a little of column B.

@FourTeaFallOut
Bear in mind we have solar, and solely use electricity from March - September (no oil), we used 2666 units in the last year (4 bed house).
However we have insulated to the hilt, bought A or A+ rating appliances to replace as things wear out, replaced all lights with low energy LEDs etc, always turn everything off etc etc

My biggest issue is the electricity co perpetually assume we are underpaying and increase the direct debit. It's SUCH a waste of my time. In 2020 they wanted to increase to £58 and I said no on current rates £49 will suffice, so we had 1 month at £49 they email and say it won't cover and it's going up to £62. I had to haggle that back down. Then last year we had the same. Every time they increase the DD I haggle it down, only to find they put it back even higher the following month. I've successfully got them down after the last increase, but they've just told me it's going up again despite our having enough cash with them to cover 4 months bills in hand before the bills hit...so I've given up it's a waste of my time. I'm seriously considering just paying their estimated bills from May (as at least on paper I'm paying for actual units of electricity - which appears to be as per annual usage plus 10% additional units - as opposed to funding their cash in the bank), even so last estimated bill (May) was higher than current reading by 200 units.
Cannot have a smart meter as where the meter is there is zero mobile signal and they will not install a signal booster.

Don't you see though? This situation is caused by low supply failing to meet high demand. Those Mumsnetters who wilfully waste energy (plenty of hot tub owners around too) are partly responsible for the high prices that the rest of us pay.

So Truss is now not ruling out the possibility of some targeted support ('handouts').

How will support be targeted? There are a number of ways for her to do this.

1 Older age-based i.e. pensioner households. This will appeal to her voter base (Tory membership and wider). However, pensioners have already had relatively more help than most especially better-off pensioners.

2 Disability-based i.e. money to households where an occupant is in receipt of, say, PIP or Attendance Allowance or DLA. Currently they are only due to receive £150 which is extremely low bearing in mind their average extra costs.

3 The govt could use the energy suppliers' Priority Services Registers to identify those who need, say, to refrigerate medication. The govt could even off-dump the problem by giving the energy suppliers a 'tax break' or a discount off the 'windfall tax' she won't impose anyway; and telling them to share the money out to eligible customers. Massive downsides to this, including: (a) it's political sleight of hand, (b) how many people even know know what a PSR is? (c) what tiny pittance would be taken from vulnerable customers' bills and is it worth the administrative hassle?

4 Younger age-based i.e. households in receipt of child benefit. Or narrow it to those eligible for Free School Meals.

5 Reinstate the £20 benefits uplift. Should already have happened but won't happen for ideological reasons.

6 Other shit I'll think of as soon as I press 'post'.

And Martin Lewis is saying, 'double the handouts already announced'.

I doubt they will double the grants for the energy bills. Trouble is , means testing it would cost even more money too , so I doubt they will do this.
Liz Truss is hell bent on tax cuts, so I suppose she'll do this first and hope this is enough to help people through the winter.

Or I’d don’t know, support the working poor who are paying huge rises in living costs and get no state support as they earn “too much.” People on 30-40k will be defined as living in fuel poverty.

Oh, this is interesting. I can see how the gulf between winter and summer usage with solar power must create an almost polar opposite energy profile across the year without a smart meter to chart it in real-time. How annoying.