To think that very few people can manage £4200 energy bills

[Butterflyfluff]

news.sky.com/story/energy-bills-forecast-to-rise-even-higher-than-previously-thought-12668906

This simply isn’t manageable for the majority of people.

Where’s this going to end?

Their posted profits don’t come from energy supply that’s for sure - according to their accounts energy supply operating profit fell by almost half to £98m. Centrica has around 9 million customers according to google - so that’s £10 profit per customer, not much for all the risk of being an energy supplier ! I dread to think how much EDF is losing.

In terms of total operating profit, most of it comes from production and operating profit doesn’t include tax. Tax is really high for production assets and that won’t include the windfall tax either as it was only finally agreed in July (Centrica’s tax is over half a billion for six months). I recall the media taking great delight in reporting that the big suppliers were on their knees in the very recent past - nobody was offering to pay higher prices then to help them out.

So whilst I can blame successive governments for various shortcomings, ultimately current problems will be resolved by expert energy suppliers/generators and not by politicians. I’ve worked in the energy market for five years and it’s unbelievably complicated - the government and public needs to trust experts in the present time, it’s a global crisis.

Because it isn’t always on or off. You can’t have everyone producing at capacity when the grid cannot support it, nor store excess gas. That is why we have the interconnectors in the first place and why we are selling gas to mainland Europe where they are happy to buy it if on offer or vice versa.

If we withhold energy within our borders, you can kiss goodbye to any load balancing that we’d need from the continent. If everyone follows the stopping of exports model (something looked into regarding peak oil production leading to bigger problems sooner as import reliant nations find exporters cutback faster than production drops), then Europe’s economy, and by extension the UK’s, goes to pot.

We are nowhere near self-sufficient in energy. And electricity isn’t even the majority of energy usage.

I’ve worked in the energy market for five years and it’s unbelievably complicated - the government and public needs to trust experts in the present time, it’s a global crisis.

Good luck with that one when people can't pay the bills. They're feral round here over the suggestion of parking zone charges.

,WinterMusings I'm not having a prepayment meter, there was one in when I moved in & it was a nightmare, it was costing me £15 a week for gas in the winter & that was 9 years ago. The government will have to get their act together & get this sorted out. There needs to be no VAT on energy or water, they are basic necessities not luxuries.

I honestly think many people have their heads in the sand.

I mentioned this as at work last week - when the price cap mentioned was lower than today's. Little comment - and I was saying how serious it is.

I think people who aren't on DD, who pay on receipt of bill are going to be in for one hell of a shock this winter. The price of energy last winter will be over 3 times what it was last winter - and this is when people turn their heating on. People were somewhat cushioned from the reality as even though gas went up in April, most people wouldn't be using much gas for heating.

Now this winter, gas will be about 3 times more expensive and people will be using a lot more for heating. So if you pay on receipt of bill - and if you pay every quarter, then in early Spring, those people are going to get one hell of a bill.

The same also applies to prepayment meters - heating will have been low over summer so when it comes to this winter and the gas heating comes on, the cost will be 3 x more than last year.

I honestly don't think many people know what is about to hit them. I honestly don't think politicians know as well.

I have done my spreadsheet and I can see the cost I predict per month and I can see the impact of reducing my usage by x%. But that's the kind of person I am.

YANBU

Scary stuff, so many people will struggle this winter

Depends on the size of your windows.

Apart from my living room windows all mine can have off the shelf curtains so it won't cost thousands. Thinking about my siblings homes it tends to be the living room which has very large windows that aren't standard size.

Don't Pay have nearly 100,000 pledges to stop paying in October but more importantly, has 30k activists signed up to take part in local/national protests and that's with the campaign just over a month old. Here's the first one in Scotland.

Everyone will need to think carefully about whether to not to pay their bill as it will no doubt have ramifications but if you have nothing already then you probably have nothing left to lose it's more a case of can't pay won't pay. Even if that's not your way, joining and meeting your local activists helps to create solidarity, support and action.

Uswitch saying 6 million homes are already £200 or more in arrears.

www.energylivenews.com/2022/08/10/energy-debt-hits-1-3bn-before-the-perfect-storm-breaks/

twitter.com/andywh1983/status/1557117015248310273

dontpay.uk/

People are going to be in a worse way if they decide not to pay.

It's not something I would personally do but many will have no choice, like I said more a case of can't pay, won't pay and if that's their situation better to find solidarity and mutual community support rather than suffer alone.

@spanishsummers if you read more of the thread - this is brought up a few times. Centrica own British Gas, amongst other companies and is a producer. British Gas is the domestic supply arm and is making a loss right now. As are most suppliers. The suppliers and producers are in v different positions right now.

@spanishsummers that’s not to say I don’t think there’s a case for Centrica to be subject to a bigger windfall tax or similar.

Actually not sure if BG is making a profit or loss but the point is that BG is not making the billions profit that you see quoted. None of the suppliers are and in fact the price cap methodology limits their profit.

EDF suing French government over being made to sell energy at a loss. Telegraph article.

Even if EDF win, its still a good deal for Macron, £7 billion is a bargain to continue to limit energy price rises.

Again...4% electricity price increase and that applies to business too, remember the UK has no price cap on energy for business... e.g. think about how that cripples hospitality? they are dealing with 400% energy rises.

Then there are Schools, councils... manufacturing.

Someone mentioned people will want to return to the office to avoid extra heating but will their employers want them?

@AndreaC74 Agreed, I think what everyone is forgetting is that not only will our home energy be expensive but commercial buyers i.e.shops, hairdressers, bakeries, factories will be paying even more for their energy and this will be passed on to us as consumers. Everything else will continue getting more expensive because energy is so much more expensive

Yep add to that Hospitals and of course the effect on their staff.

Hospitals do not have the choice to slash energy consumption & no extra money to cope.

As much as handing out money is welcome, we also need to realise that these prices will continue for many more years.

As for Not paying making people worse off? How? millions of folk not paying will clog up the courts, be electoral suicide for any Govt & force them to act.

171 Billionaires in the UK, total wealth 590 billion. 2.5 million Millionaires here too...... but we have no money?

Tory overarching principles - the sanctity of capital but never labour and that poor people are feckless, stupid and lazy and a drain on the national exchequer. Give them the minimum to stop them from revolting and it's always someone else fault never the government that has been in power for 12 years and 80 years of the last 100.

I'm on a fixed tariff now until end of 2023, I'm going to keep my DD's the same as what I am paying now during the rebate period to try and get a bit of credit in my account ready for when the fix comes to an end and my bill goes up about £300 a month....it's just diabolical how little the government are doing to remedy this cost of living catastrophe.

This is what Truss, Dominic Raab, Kwasi Kwarteng, Priti Patel and Chris Skidmore think of the British....

“Once they enter the workplace, the British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.”

So no surprise they don't give a flying about millions of people going cold and hungry this winter and beyond.

It's ridiculous, we work the longest hours in Europe and have the fewest public holidays

@AndreaC74 crikey so they did though our Liz says wasn't her for that bit but Raab. They don't try to hide it, do they ?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/30/british-idlers-how-a-2012-attack-on-uks-work-ethic-could-haunt-liz-truss

But occasionally the truth punctures their comfortable bubble of certainty even just momentarily.

"You're an Eton millionaire who doesn't care about disabled people."
Jacob Rees-Mogg is confronted in Manchester by Dominic Hutchins who says that he had to prove he had cerebral palsy to claim benefits.

In the mid 80s I went to view some energy efficient showhouses in Milton Keynes. Built to a high standard of energy recovery and re-use, with heat exchange units and solar panels. Nothing so grand or as efficient as available today but I recall that energy bills would be something like 10-20% of average. .

There's been an average of 180,00 or so new houses per year built since then and yet, with that knowledge and availability of energy reduction measures back then , NO government has made it mandatory to build to the highest energy efficiency.

A wasted opportunity for the UK.

However not wasted on me - we have peak insulation/doubleglazing/solar etc.
We're looking at water efficiency, rainwater storage and waste water recycling as we feel this is another area bills will vastly increase. Sadly Thames Water loose so much from leaky pipes and don't believe you when you repeatedly report a fault. Took them 3 years and multiple reports to find and fix one in my road which meant my washing machine failed to fill properly due to lack of pressure

@Ariela it takes about 10 random people to report a leak before they recognise there is a leak.....