To think there's still that teeny weeny bit of a pandemic thing happening?

[IAmOldNow]

Not complaining, just observing:

Figures say: cases rising, hospitalisiations rising, fatalities: flat at best but if anything that'll be thanks to large scale immunisation, largely due to vaccines that may not prevent infection altogether but are, largely, proving to be pretty good at making sure the vast majority of us don't end up on a ventilator and/or: dead!

Currenrt reality says: huge client party tonight. Cue some 3k people crammed into a mostly indoors space, free alcohol, hugging, air kissing, any old thing you'd imagine from people who, literally, know and do not actively hate each other and haven't met in the flesh for two years.

AIBU to think that this is a) human and understandable but also b) bound to see 1/3 of the organisation out cold with COVID within a week?

For the record: I don't know the right answer! I went, too!

Oh god yes, the iron lung. Brilliant bit of life-saving technology of course, but for me, like you, it was the stuff of nightmares. The NHS and science have brought us so many improvements but humans always manage to bugger things up again. (Presuming that with covid, an animal virus mutated to affect humans through live-animal markets.)

Although even if the alternative theory about a man made virus escaping is true, that would also qualify as humans managing to bugger things up again. Possibly even more so.

I'm not sure why there's so much emphasis on humans buggering things up - nature isn't exactly benign in fairness.

Reading this thread has made me realise that some people have become much more aware than they were before covid of how humans in close-ish proximity can transmit illnesses to each other. And for these people, they now desire to wear masks, avoid certain settings and sanitise etc to protect themselves and others from this risk that has always existed but of which they are now more aware. For those people, of course it is fine for them to take whatsoever action they desire to respond to this. From my personal perspective being more aware of how diseases get transmitted means I wash my hands with soap more frequently. I'm less likely than I was pre covid to be in close contact with others when I have a cold, for example. I work harder to contain sneezes for absolute sure. But I'm not going to feel pressurised to wear a mask or not attend busy events because someone else has different chosen way of managing theirs and other's risk to me. Someone who is a passionate mask advocate now in this very very different phase of the pandemic, and who gets angry for other people's rational choices comes across as unreasonable and quite narrow minded.

Some of the effects of lockdowns and lack of immunity to other illnesses is only starting to be realised especially for young children for example the cases worldwide of children contracting hepatitis due to lack of exposure of adenovirus and a more serious immune response getting it later. If exposure young then mostly they are very mild.

I definitely don't judge others for wishing to take cautions themselves my dad is immune suppressed but I object to the idea that it's "not difficult or a small thing to do etc". Actually it's a huge thing to do and many young children are developmentally behind as a direct result of lockdowns and illnesses spreading like wildfire (not covid) due to lack of built up immunity.

I have no issue with people who wish to wear a mask but at least make it the right level grade of a FFP2 to actually provide protection. I don't agree with forcing everyone to wear them and am glad that has been removed especially with the newer variants showing that what people wore offered little protection and was more of a visual safety blanket.

Well, best of luck with your coming autumn and winter. In Australia there has been a surge of flu and Covid cases, leading to hospitalisations, and higher deaths over the autumn/winter period this year. Even as we are starting to tail off in the case numbers, doctors have been pushing for people to wear masks when shopping, etc, and now, even as winter is coming to an end, this state will be handing them out free to try to curb the cases.

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/more-than-three-million-masks-to-be-handed-out-across-victoria/news-story/1b1593457c0b1c11dae1b8e20bc2c3c9

Well, best of luck with your coming autumn and winter. In Australia there has been a surge of flu and Covid cases, leading to hospitalisations, and higher deaths over the autumn/winter period this year.
I'm not worrying about it.
If I get it, I get it.
No point sitting watching cases rise and fall and stressing myself silly.
You have to still live your life as well.

I'm not worrying about it.

I wasn't talking about you or anyone personally! High case numbers translating into higher hospitalisations and ICU beds taken means hospitals are struggling, and the domino effects of that. Ambulances ramping for 9+ hours, and people dying because of that.

I wasn't talking about you or anyone personally!
I know you weren't talking about anyone in particular, me included.
It was on the thread though so presumably to all reading it so was just commenting with my perspective like people tend to do.

WFH were possible, mandatory mask wearing indoors and on public transport, limits to the number of people who can gather for social events and a return to limited numbers of people in shops at one time are easy wins
It's not though, is it? If you're limiting the amount of people who can enter a shop, who can go to social events, surely you can see that isn't sustainable for a business and keeping the economy going sense?!
People need to make a living

I definitely don't judge others for wishing to take cautions themselves my dad is immune suppressed but I object to the idea that it's "not difficult or a small thing to do etc". Actually it's a huge thing to do

Yes, it actually amazes me that people trying to advocate for particular behaviours are still coming out with this two and a half years in. It's such an obviously privileged and ignorant thing to say. There are downsides to any kind of precaution or restriction, the question is simply whether the individual speaking happens to experience or even acknowledge them.

People really would do much better to say they understand and accept the downsides but feel for whatever reason that it's the least worst option. It's a much better look than simply engaging in the old if it doesn't bother me it must be fine schtick.

Masks are also expensive and a huge drain on the environment (because they cant be recycled) plus rely on proper sensible use

@milkyaqua I am not sure Covid works in the same way as flu. Australia are currently I think behind in terms of the wave (cant remember what the variant is) but it is the same variant that has gone through the UK in May/June time. Yes Autumn/Winter offers more opportunities to spread indoors but the waves dont follow seasons - more how variants appear.

I think how Covid was handled has made some lose perspective some still want it to be front and centre. It cant be there are so many factors it needs to be balanced against - the cost of living crisis, environmental issues etc. I think everyone is aware it is not over, I think most realise it now will never be over we can only hope it stops mutating to being more infectious

It always seems to me that the people suggesting we should still limit social interaction are thinking about themselves not others. Because they still seem to expect that someone else will take the risks of delivering their food (if shopping online), collecting their rubbish, getting their post delivered, their children educated or looked after at schools, nurseries etc.

@milkyaqua I am not sure Covid works in the same way as flu.

I don't know what you mean by this, but we have had a huge increase in flu numbers this year, and that coupled with a rise in Covid cases over winter has led to a rise in excess deaths, hospitals struggling, and the usual.

The expectation is that the northern hemisphere may experience a similar confluence of increases in flu cases as well as the natural winter increase of Covid normally associated with closed windows, cold temperatures, closer gatherings in confined spaces with less airflow.

I'm not suggesting waves of Covid follow seasons. It's the combination of the two concurrently that is problematic both for individuals and hospitals.

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(22)00503-5/fulltext?dgcid=raven_jbs_aip_email

Because they still seem to expect that someone else will take the risks of delivering their food (if shopping online), collecting their rubbish, getting their post delivered, their children educated or looked after at schools, nurseries etc

This is a very good point.

I'm not suggesting waves of Covid follow seasons. It's the combination of the two concurrently that is problematic both for individuals and hospitals.

One of the reasons flu might be such a problem this winter is precisely because exposure to flu virus has been limited for the last two winters.

As well as everything else, lockdown/harsh restrictions are bad for health in some ways too, because we need that exposure to keep at equilibrium.

To some degree, biting the bullet this winter is the most sensible thing to do (assuming we don't get any worse covid variants). Otherwise the problems just keep storing up.

Exactly!

To some degree, biting the bullet this winter is the most sensible thing to do

Not sure how hospital systems are supposed to bite the bullet! On a personal level, large numbers of us over here got flu shots as soon as they became available.

Not sure how hospital systems are supposed to bite the bullet!

Well it's either do it now or shore up even more problems next year, so 🤷‍♀️

On a personal level, large numbers of us over here got flu shots as soon as they became available.

of course getting the shots out as widely as possible is sensible

Because they still seem to expect that someone else will take the risks of delivering their food (if shopping online), collecting their rubbish, getting their post delivered, their children educated or looked after at schools, nurseries etc

I have said this from the very beginning. There are still a great many people who blather on about selfish this and selfish that whilst happily outsourcing the perceived risk to those who bring them things and keep the lights on.

That lockdown/harsh restrictions innately implies and requires a class of people doing the risky work keeping lots of services going is one of the reasons I don't think it could happen again during this pandemic. Even in the event of a much more dangerous variant. Millions of people being scared enough to limit their social activities but not so scared that they stop working outside the home is actually an incredibly difficult thing to pull off. Remarkable that our society managed it twice. I don't think OP is coming back now, but it goes back to her point about whether humans are too innately social to be 'good' at pandemic management, and the inevitability of people placing a high value on social interaction.

And yes, of course people are generally keener for others to make sacrifices than to do it themselves. That's one thing that has been very clear over the last couple of years. Sometimes that looks like insisting that something they won't be disadvantaged by is an easy win, other times it looks like devaluing behaviours that are important to other people but not to them. It's the same principle though.

I think someone once described lockdowns as a bunch of middle class people hiding at home while working class people bring them things.

Theres someone who keeps commenting on stories run by the local paper in the Isle of Wight that all the ferries should be stopped and no one should be allowed on or off the island. That no one would get any post and everyone would starve doesn’t appear to matter very much to him.

I’m also not sure Australia is a good comparator for Europe. 2020/2021 were very different for Australia than most European countries.

WFH were possible, mandatory mask wearing indoors and on public transport, limits to the number of people who can gather for social events and a return to limited numbers of people in shops at one time are easy wins

Easy wins for who? The shopkeeper who can't pay his utilities any more as businesses don't have a price cap, so now you want to eat into what remains of his profits until his business is no longer viable.
Genius idea.

This is because of the lack of social care and bed blocking and the staffing crisis, not due to covid.