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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think men don’t get asked to ‘choose between the baby or mothers life’?

154 replies

itsquietuptown · 07/08/2022 23:36

Just read an article about a husbands experience of traumatic birth, he writes that at one point the dr ‘took him to one side’ and asked if it came to it should they prioritise saving mum or baby.

This is not the first time I have heard this claim and some people are very adamant it happened to them.

But... surely this is not a thing? How would that be ethical for a birthing partner to decide on another person’s life? A husband or boyfriend or even ex-boyfriend/fling/one-night-stand having the power over a woman’s body because she has allowed them to be in the room.

I can’t see how this would be ethically right whatsoever..

OP posts:
Nat6999 · 08/08/2022 06:05

My dad had to agree to my mum having a hysterectomy & that was in the 1980's, he had to cosign the consent form. It wasn't an emergency, just a routine operation.

Schooldil3ma · 08/08/2022 06:09

What an outrage, either thr husband has lied or the journalist, no way around it, what a load of bollocks. Put up a link will you please? We should tweet the author and ask them to fact check before writing this utter shit.

Dinoteeth · 08/08/2022 06:16

I had flu and pumonia at 35 weeks during my first pregnancy.
Ended up in the High Dependency next door to ICU. They discussed delivering my baby the day I was admitted.

My family was sent for, but at no point were they asked to make any decisions.

I'd often wondered how fit i was to have a c-section at that point in time. And would the babies chances have influenced the decision. When pregnant with my second I took the opportunity to ask the consultant. She was adamant that any decisions would have been based solely on what was best for me.

forinborin · 08/08/2022 06:56

Turnthatoff · 08/08/2022 05:26

Many years ago my mum underwent a GA for a breast biopsy. Her doctor had told her not to worry, he was confident she didn’t have cancer. The biopsy came back positive, the surgeon told dad, and asked him to sign a consent firm. Mum woke with one breast at 32 years of age. Ok, she would have given consent. But 50 years later I am still outraged on her behalf.

i don’t know much about obstetrics, and surely if anyone life is in danger you get the baby out and there are two specialist teams working on each patient. I can’t think of a scenario where you would have to choose? But anyway, I’d such a scenario were to exist, and assuming the mother was unconscious, then in days gone buy, sure, it probably happened.

Doesn't a biopsy take several days to process?

Maireas · 08/08/2022 06:59

Donehere · 08/08/2022 03:56

It's a male fantasy isn't it - having that power

Absolutely.
I've heard this story so many times and it's always been nonsense.

Reallybadidea · 08/08/2022 07:11

While we're at it, being 'legal next of kin' doesn't allow someone to make medical decisions for you if you're unconscious. That responsibility is taken by the medical team, to act in your 'best interests'. Close family and partners will be kept informed, but they don't get the final say-so, regardless of marital status. This always gets trotted out on threads about marriage though.

Stag82 · 08/08/2022 07:16

i had a very traumatic birth with my DD and I remember my (now ex) saying he thought he’d be asked to choose who to save (he wasn’t)!

WhatNoRaisins · 08/08/2022 07:19

It's such a deeply embedded cliche that maybe some men will misinterpret what the doctor is actually saying to them because they believe it so strongly.

felulageller · 08/08/2022 07:22

Women are sacrificed to save babies every day in the UK.

1/3 of births in the UK are c sections. Mothers are 4 times more likely to die after a c section.

But they are carried out every day, in the majority of cases to 'save' the baby, often if for example, the heart rate is reducing.

These babies are saved but some mothers die.

In cases of pre/eclampsia when the baby is premature the birth is often delayed to give the baby a better chance of survival/ avoiding morbidities. Delaying birth endangers the mother and risks death. Again sacrificing the mother for the baby.

Roselilly36 · 08/08/2022 07:26

@Nat6999 yes, I can remember my late MIL telling me, that her DH had to sign consent when she requested sterilisation this would have been early 1970’s.

Wouldloveanother · 08/08/2022 07:28

YANBU, I don’t believe it either - extreme bit of paraphrasing going on there I think.

CecilyP · 08/08/2022 07:29

If the mothers health/life is being endangered by the pregnancy, the solution is to deliver the baby, thus saving both. If the baby isn't delivered, and the mother dies, the baby will obviously die as well.

And this would generally involve an emergency C-section. An operation which is very safe and now extremely common.

MaggieFS · 08/08/2022 07:39

Depends where you live, but if in England it's a sensationalist click bait headline

waterbotherer · 08/08/2022 07:40

felulageller · 08/08/2022 07:22

Women are sacrificed to save babies every day in the UK.

1/3 of births in the UK are c sections. Mothers are 4 times more likely to die after a c section.

But they are carried out every day, in the majority of cases to 'save' the baby, often if for example, the heart rate is reducing.

These babies are saved but some mothers die.

In cases of pre/eclampsia when the baby is premature the birth is often delayed to give the baby a better chance of survival/ avoiding morbidities. Delaying birth endangers the mother and risks death. Again sacrificing the mother for the baby.

do women not get a say? women CHOOSE to continue the pregnancy sometimes against medical advice, they CHOOSE to have c sections.

but women are SACRIFICED EVERYDAY IN THE UK? Aye ok then

CecilyP · 08/08/2022 07:45

forinborin · 08/08/2022 06:56

Doesn't a biopsy take several days to process?

Show quote history

That’s what I was wondering. Wouldn’t a woman be woken from the anaesthetic as soon as the biopsy was done? It would be a a while before needing to be under anaesthetic much longer for a mastectomy.

Sartre · 08/08/2022 07:48

The Mother is always the main priority, particularly before the baby is born.

Seaography · 08/08/2022 07:50

felulageller · 08/08/2022 07:22

Women are sacrificed to save babies every day in the UK.

1/3 of births in the UK are c sections. Mothers are 4 times more likely to die after a c section.

But they are carried out every day, in the majority of cases to 'save' the baby, often if for example, the heart rate is reducing.

These babies are saved but some mothers die.

In cases of pre/eclampsia when the baby is premature the birth is often delayed to give the baby a better chance of survival/ avoiding morbidities. Delaying birth endangers the mother and risks death. Again sacrificing the mother for the baby.

I believe its around 40% of c sections that are emergencies. By that stage it is seen as the least worse option. On top there will be a large number of planned sections where a vaginal birth is considered too high risk. Its a distorted statistic to say that means sections are more dangerous. It's the circumstances that led to a section that increase the risk.

itsgettingweird · 08/08/2022 08:19

butterfly990 · 08/08/2022 00:15

In Eire the unborn baby has more rights than the mother.

Wasn't it Ireland where a mum was kept on LS until the baby could be born?

HoppingPavlova · 08/08/2022 08:21

@felulageller Women are sacrificed to save babies every day in the UK. 1/3 of births in the UK are c sections. Mothers are 4 times more likely to die after a c section. But they are carried out every day, in the majority of cases to 'save' the baby, often if for example, the heart rate is reducing. These babies are saved but some mothers die. In cases of pre/eclampsia when the baby is premature the birth is often delayed to give the baby a better chance of survival/ avoiding morbidities. Delaying birth endangers the mother and risks death. Again sacrificing the mother for the baby.

Thats completely different to the OP and what everyone is discussing. That’s when a woman CHOOSES an option. No Dr is standing there telling her that she must do this or that, they are telling her of the situation and giving options and the mother herself is CHOOSING certain pathways to give the baby a better chance as she herself is CHOOSING the risk benefit that is acceptable to her. Extremely different to what was being discussed in the OP.

Let’s say that in a situation, it would actually be best for the mother to deliver early. This is discussed with her and is the medical advice. She may be conscious, lucid and refuse to do so based on her own choices. That has to be respected. You can’t just knock her out and deliver the baby early as that would be assault.

dehloh · 08/08/2022 08:24

Pixiedust1234 · 07/08/2022 23:42

It wouldn't surprise me if this happens still. Tradesmen ask to speak to the man of the house in preference to the little lady on a regular basis. Ask any mumsnetter.

I think you have misunderstood the question. It's not about whether they ask the man over the woman. It's whether the father is asked who to save.

Oojamaflipp · 08/08/2022 08:28

felulageller · 08/08/2022 07:22

Women are sacrificed to save babies every day in the UK.

1/3 of births in the UK are c sections. Mothers are 4 times more likely to die after a c section.

But they are carried out every day, in the majority of cases to 'save' the baby, often if for example, the heart rate is reducing.

These babies are saved but some mothers die.

In cases of pre/eclampsia when the baby is premature the birth is often delayed to give the baby a better chance of survival/ avoiding morbidities. Delaying birth endangers the mother and risks death. Again sacrificing the mother for the baby.

That's a bit dramatic to say women are being sacrificed by having c sections. I don't know many women who would choose NOT to a c section if it meant their baby would survive, as a high number are emergency circumstances. And those that aren't emergency will have been discussed with the mother beforehand, as it's not that easy to get a c section just because you fancy one, unlike in other countries.

If I was in labour and there was a problem and I had the choice of vaginal birth but baby will definitely die, or c section with associated risk to me, but baby has a much higher chance of survival, then I would absolutely choose the latter. As would most women I would have thought? No sacrificing involved.

SockQueen · 08/08/2022 08:40

Dinoteeth · 08/08/2022 06:16

I had flu and pumonia at 35 weeks during my first pregnancy.
Ended up in the High Dependency next door to ICU. They discussed delivering my baby the day I was admitted.

My family was sent for, but at no point were they asked to make any decisions.

I'd often wondered how fit i was to have a c-section at that point in time. And would the babies chances have influenced the decision. When pregnant with my second I took the opportunity to ask the consultant. She was adamant that any decisions would have been based solely on what was best for me.

When you are that far advanced in pregnancy, the baby and all the associated physiological changes are already putting a big strain on your heart and lungs. Adding flu and pneumonia increases this even further, so delivering the baby (even when this means CS) can be the best thing for improving the mother's chances.

With Covid, when we were seeing quite a lot of pregnant women being admitted to ICU, must of them had their babies delivered and it had a big (positive) effect on their respiratory function.

PolishingCandles · 08/08/2022 08:41

What a load of old tosh.

NewYorkLassie · 08/08/2022 09:03

1/3 of births in the UK are c sections. Mothers are 4 times more likely to die after a c section.

This doesn’t tell you anything about how many of those women may have died without the c section anyway, or how many more would have died had they not had a c section. A c section isn’t always just about saving the baby. What do you think happens to the mother if a full term baby just doesn’t come out on their own?

satelliteheart · 08/08/2022 09:29

No way this is true in the UK. When I was in labour with my first and things weren't going to plan I specifically said to the Dr that if there was a choice to be made they were to save me not the baby. The Dr cut me off and said it's not a choice they give people, it is the mother's life they prioritise in all circumstances

To the weird c section poster, the majority of emergency c sections are to save the mother's life. My first was fully impacted in my birth canal, he could not come out vaginally...if they'd just left him there so I didn't have to have a c section do you think I'd have lived a long and healthy life?! Of course not! If a baby can't come out through the vagina the mother dies, so a c section is in the mother's best interests, not just the baby