AIBU to consider changing my will?

[CaroMD]

Long story but try to get the basics. Single parent, 3 children all now adults and supposedly financially independent - I have left everything in my will to be shared equally. Order of appearance: No.1 son married, no children. No.2 son married and one daughter. No.3 is my daughter, divorced with one daughter. I’ve tried to be fair over time but different needs don’t always make it easy. After daughter’s bank account suddenly frozen (never given reason) over 14 years ago I set up a joint account but was constantly topping it up when I got overdraft notices as affects my credit, last time I checked I’d spent over £18k to cover her debts. Daughter and SIL moved in for a year as in financial difficulties, it was hell! After my father died I gave each child £50k to get on property ladder and kept the same for myself to supplement my pension. Daughter needed a car as old one failed, pressure from her led to me offering a loan from my savings which ended up at just over £7k. Soon after she was very distressed as maxed out 3 credit cards. I loaned her £8k to pay off one. Daughter expected me to look after g’child several days a week and overnight but when lockdown came I refused as I’m CEV. She lost it, cut me off on social media, sent nasty messages and has made no attempt to repay a penny or keep in touch. Thinking of changing will to give her less with regard to the loans but by then I will be gone so will it make relations between my children very bad?

Op I'd be inclined to agree with the others however,why is she so bad at managing money.
Did you drill financial training into them ?.show them bills, savings,work wage to show how you paid for things? Drummed into her never to use a cc....how to save?

Some people will never get it ...or get ahead enough to be able to save.
However,many parents also don't teach budgets, financial planning etc.

Ask your solicitor to include a hotchpot clause in your will.

I do think that putting a very definite clause in your will that accounts for the c. £30 that your daughter owes you will cause major friction between your kids after you die. The way around this, as other people have suggested is to give your other two kids the same amount of money now beforehand, but that can only be done if you have the funds obviously. If this cant be done I would leave it as equal between them because I have seen too many families fall out over wills in my lifetime and I am sure that you do not want this to happen with yours.

Personally I would split the inheritance three ways between your three children but deduct any large loans that had not been repaid. So for example each of your children get, say £50k but your daughter has had £30k worth of unpaid loans from you so she only inherits £20k.

Then with the remaining £30k I would split that equally between all grandchildren, in trust if necessary due to their ages.

I have had to consider this with my two DC. I helped both to buy their own house with equal deposits. The younger bought using a help to buy loan. Due to property values going up which would affect the amount to be repaid I gave the younger one a loan to pay off the Help to Buy loan. The DC is paying what they can afford off the loan each month but realistically they won't pay it off before I die. Therefore the remaining loan will be deducted from their share of my estate. Both DC are aware of this so there will be no bad feeling between them when the time comes.

Interesting responses, thank you all. In answer to some comments, all were brought up to be careful with money but she obviously struggles, even though she works in commissioning! She has no contact with older brother, her choice, and little contact with the other, again her choice and this has been the same for many years. I am unable to give the other two the same amounts as my funds are low, which is why it was clear that these were loans and not gifts. Given the current climate I could soon be struggling myself as only other income is my pension. After many attempts I finally got my name off the joint account last year, she had refused to sign the docs so I had to give an ultimatum. All are aware of the details of my current will and I will inform them all if I make any changes. Families and wills are a minefield - my father left 50:50 to me and my sister but she tried to sue me as she demanded 100%!

More fool you tbh.

At the very last make sure it's evened up for your sons in the will. She's already had hers and sounds like an absolute cow!

On reading your update OP and the fact that they don't have the best relationship to start with, then I would just do the right thing by the other two. So for example if the amount is £120K just take out £30K and divide the £90K left between all three and then divide the £30K between the other two i.e your daughter who is causing problems gets £30K and her two siblings gets £45K each. That is the fair thing to do in the circumstances. She is not going to like it but you just need to make it very clear that her outstanding loan of £30K is being taken into account and I am sure that your solicitor will be able to write this up in such a way that it should not be questionable.

Did you drill financial training into them ?.show them bills, savings,work wage to show how you paid for things? Drummed into her never to use a cc....how to save?

Talk about victim blaming!

I’m in a similar situation where one sibling has had thousands ‘loaned’ (and yet to pay back). Despite All the the help they’ve always been terrible with money and cannot understand how others have ‘had it easy’. They choose not to see the evenings, weekends, extra hours worked, 2 or more jobs or the going without that resulted in a deposit for a house or being able to buy furniture (all of these have been provided by parents for them). We’re told that this will be taken into account in the will and to be honest, that’s not the point of this post. They will piss it up the wall whatever they get and then look round ready to blame someone else for them being broke. Either take into account what you’ve already spent or put her third in trust for her kids.

Split it equally it would cause issues amongst the siblings

I can't imagine you wouldn't want to?
Just stop being a pushover for your daughter

Invest in getting a solicitor to write the will for you, it could save your sons some serious hassle later on. We have what our solicitor called a ‘hotch potch’ clause which takes into account the sums given to each child along the way and evening up the leftover money. One child will almost certainly have had far more given to them in our lifetime.

Id also leave the remaining share to her DC to be held in trust until 18 or 21.

Sorry you’ve had such a difficult experience.

I'd cut her out entirely. If you were my mother and my sibling had treated you like this, there would be no sibling relationship left to worry about damaging. And what's she going to do if she finds out she's been disinherited? Cut you out of her life? She's got no power over you now.
I'd write a letter of explanation for the will as she sounds like the type to cause trouble, and leave something directly to your grandchild. In fact, I might even split in to 6 and give 2/6 to each of your children and 1/6 to to each grandchild directly or something along those lines if you want to make sure both get something from you.

Hotchpot clause

Take out the debts you have paid as solely part of your daughters share and then split equally - the two older sibling can hold the other third in trust for daughters daughter.
if my child cut me off I wouldn’t give them
anything

This won't happen unless she writes it into her will or by codicil that the loans/payments need to be taken into account.

I am unable to give the other two the same amounts as my funds are low, which is why it was clear that these were loans and not gifts. Given the current climate I could soon be struggling myself as only other income is my pension.

Based on that, it sounds like you won't have anything like £33k to leave to the other two. Do you own your house, will the value of that form part of your estate?

If she's NC/LC with her brothers and that's her choice, then I don't think there's any sibling relationship to be ruined. I'd do whatever you can to even it out in your will. Re-make it with a good solicitor and make sure you enclose a letter (drawn up by the solicitor so that it's watertight) with the will explaining your decisions. As long as a reason is given, the courts would be very reluctant to interfere if your daughter were to even begin to think of challenging it.

I’m afraid I’d leave her nothing. She’s had her share already. If her relationship with her siblings is poor anyway, it makes no odds.

I was going to suggest leaving it in trust to the GC's, but not because your daughter's not speaking to you, but because she's shit with money.

She would probably spunk the money, and your grandchildren would never benefit from it. Skipping a generation is fine in these circumstances imo. And I'd write her a letter, to be given to her when the will is read, explaining why.

That's really interesting about your father's will OP. Why did your sister feel she was entitled to 100%?

which is why it was clear that these were loans and not gifts.
do you have the loan agreements in writing? If you do, the. Absolutely split it so the loans are deducted from her third and include a copy of the agreement in your will. If not, the. It's more tricky.

IL's "loaned" us money for our deposit. They are not expecting it back. DH had to go with his brother when IL's updated their will and both signed to agree that everything will be split in two taking into account the amount of the loan. I.e. our loan will be cancelled and BIL will receive what we receive plus the loan amount.

I am in the middle of this right now with my parents wills.I have one sibling who has been no contact with parents for 15 years and no contact with me for 10, I won't go into the reason why but they behaved very badly and never enquired about them again.
I have had to deal with everything,supporting my elderly parents who lived 200 miles away through cancer treatment,serious heart problems,general decline etc.My dad died 3 years ago from heart failure, he was 85. My parents did not want my sibling informed so I respected their wishes
.
My mum struggled so we spent a lot of time driving back and forth. She was admitted to hospital for emergency surgery and I had to go part time at work to spend time with her.

Then Covid hit and she was really isolated, we had to drive down with food parcels as she couldn't get online delivery.
Mum started having falls so we sold her house bought her a retirement flat and she moved near us last year.We had a lovely 6 months before she was taken ill, in hospital for a month ,caught covid in there and died.
She left nearly everything to me, her 3 grandchildren are also beneficiaries( this mirrored my dad's will)She didn't want my sibling informed of her death and they both wrote letters stating why they did what they did.Even so I've been told that sibling could contest the will if they find out so I have to wait and see.

In some ways I feel really bad, but the last 15 years have been so stressful having the whole responsibility on my shoulders alone and being stuck in the middle of their disagreement which ultimately destroyed my relationship with my only sibling. If I give my sibling any money I go against my parents wishes and ultimately it's for my children's future, they also don't deserve it after the way they've treated everyone, my children included.
It's early days and you may repair the relationship with your daughter but explain what you doing with your other children and even it up. It could cause lasting damage between them if they don't understand your reasoning and it gives them the chance to say how they feel.

Unfortunately when it comes to money some people will just take whatever they can get without a care for anyone else.

DH DGM had two children (all names changed) John and Jane. Both DC married and had one DC each. John had William and Jane had Henry. John died at 26 when William was 7 months old. DGM had always intended to split her money equally between her two children. On John’s death DGM rewrote her will stating DGS William was to receive his father’s share and DD Jane was to receive the other share. On DGM death her DD received half and DGS William received what would have been his DF half. Henry hasn’t spoken to William since as he cannot see why his cousin got money and he didn’t.

My Sister will receive £25,000 from my parents will before the remainder is split equally 3 ways as my parents gave two of us money to help buy a property. They have already told us their intention and none of us are bothered as it’s only fair we all get the same.

I would leave your daughter’s share to her daughter OP left in a trust to be held by one or both uncles until she is 21. Your DD needs to realise you are not a cash card.

I would definitely change it. And explain why so the others know how much help she's had. Why is she allowed to milk you as a cash cow but the others are oblivious. Siblings fall out all the time. The way she is, she will be 'expecting' something, however, there's no way it has to be equal. She is not financially responsible, and she has to grow up sometime. With you keep rescuing her all the time, you're not doing her any favours. It will just seem like favouritism to the others, which will cause a rift anyway.

Unless of course you redress the balance now by givibg the other 2 what she has had from you. Otherwise they will be paying indirectly. Then what is left, is left and you can fairly leave it equally.

She seems ungrateful and selfish with no real regard for you. But you are useful. Sorry if that sounds harsh. 😪

History repeating itself! My sister lived in NY for many years and would only visit parents if they paid the fare - she had a good job but drank and smoked it all away. Every year she would ask for a loan to pay her taxes but never paid back, I discovered after she died she’d been bankrupt at some point. When our father died she needed money to pay her taxes but obviously couldn’t get it until everything was sorted. I had to deal with probate etc and I claimed expenses (e.g. I had to insure his house until sold) She was so angry she said I was not to be recompensed and she decided I shouldn’t have a penny and threatened to sue me and make me homeless. Stressful times.