Breastfeeding woes - give up or keep going?

[Moonisdown]

Sorry posting here for traffic and as parenting boards are quiet. Feeling desperate!! Can anyone offer advise?

I have a 5 week old and my breastfeeding ‘journey’ so far:

baby in NICU for 5 days being formula fed. Managed to express some colostrum day 1, got a pump from midwives on day 2, was shown how to use it wrongly and ended up in agony with engorged breasts and not extracting anything.

got baby back on day 5 and started breastfeeding. Actually went well but didn’t have enough supply and baby was losing weight/ jaundice so had to keep topping up with formula and do a strict feeding schedule.

supply increased and baby was putting on weight, feeding was fine - then we both got thrush. In agony feeding, baby unhappy. Cue medications for us both for two weeks, I think it’s nearly gone now as pain is nearly gone but still painful to feed and baby latch isn’t as good now.

Supply increased properly (we’ve been measuring on scales), started to cut back on formula as not needed, baby is be getting loads. However now baby is sick after feeding - just breast. If having an exclusive formula feed baby is fine so it can’t be dairy allergy.

baby looks in pain and uncomfortable after a breast feed now - screws up face and body and goes all red, then gets sick 2-3 times.

a lactation consultants commented a few weeks ago on how I didn’t seem to have much creamy milk so I think this is as I am only giving baby thin milk heavy in lactose so it’s creating an uncomfortable stomach, lots of wind and getting sick.

so what is even the point? Its been 5 weeks of disaster, I persevered even through the agony of thrush only for baby to now be sick and uncomfortable on breast milk and fine on formula😭😭😭

That is a lot to have dealt with in 5 weeks (not to mention an actual birth and recovery from that!). I would try to persist a little longer, if you can without losing your mind, your supply would need a little time to adjust and possibly baby's digestive system too. The vomitting after a feed may be that your flow is too fast compared to bottle feeding, try to do a hold where the baby swallows "up against gravity" like football hold, rather than milk running down into their throat if their body is angled downwards.

I am surprised about the "thin milk" comment from the lactation consultant. A study of many (?hundreds) of breastfeeding women was that regardless of the volume fed, milk consistency, the milk fat over 24hrs was amazingly consistent. Volume, "creaminess" and other things all over the place, but milk fat over 24hr was nearly identical. So unless you are pumping and storing/dumping, your body will be delivering exactly the right amount of milk fat to your baby - which is why you can't overfeed a breastfed baby. More milk decreases the fat per feed, less and it ups it.

Baby could have reflux or other issues separate to the breastfeeding, in which case perhaps specific formula might be best. But maybe set yourself a date (another week) and see if things improve. 5-6 weeks is a very normal time for people to stop feeding because "they didn't make enough milk", whereas it was actually a developmental stage and unrest.

Are you eating something that is upsetting baby ? Seems strange that baby is ok on formula .

It could be that you’re eating something that upsets the baby. Fizzy drinks orange juice and curry did it for mine. Or the baby could be a greedy guts and you could have fast let down.
mine both puked after feeds and both had wind. You could try infacol or gripe water but what worked for me was keeping the baby fairly upright after a feed and winding them well. Once they get a bit older it’s not an issue.

It sounds like you want to give up and are asking for permission that it’s ok.

I tried for 3 days and it was the worst 3 days of my life.

I stopped and was so much happier. I don’t feel any guilt at all and nor should you.

You have done amazing to persist for this long. I really wanted to bf but it didn't work for us for various reasons. When I stopped I had a day or two if disappointment and guilt but then it was mainly relief. From that point my baby thrived and I was so much more relaxed too.

In short, if you feel like bf is causing you additional stress then stop. Enjoy your baby. Be happy and relaxed. That is way more important than carrying on with something out a misplaced sense of duty.

@Kylereese part of me wishes I’d never even tried and had just continued on the formula NICU were giving as if I give up now I will feel like a failure. I don’t really want to give up but it’s frustrating me that I just can’t catch a break despite trying so hard. It’s definitely one of those things where effort doesn’t mean anything!

@Jenny70 thanks I will google those holds. I’ve only been doing one hold - straight across both breasts.

the lactation consultants got me to pump at very end of the feed and was concerned the milk was still white and not creamy when baby had been feeding to empty the breast so she said baby should’ve been on the creamy milk by the end/ it should’ve come out in the pump.

@Orangesare @KangarooKenny I have been eating plain enough foods and similar foods over the 5 weeks and initially baby wasn’t throwing up so I didn’t think it was food but I’ll keep it extra plain just in case. It can’t be anything dairy related as the formula is 100% dairy and she’s fine on it.

I found an article that said the following which fits what is happening including alot of weight gain:

“The potential problems for your baby are foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, which throws off the feeding balance in breastfed babies, resulting in them not feeling full despite the fact they are, and spitting up more often as a result. This happens if they get a bit too much of the non-fatty foremilk because the hindmilk is stuck in the back and never gets to the baby to satisfy its hunger, often leading to spit-ups or vomiting.”

”All the baby ends up getting is a whole lot of lactose and not much else. Also, because the lack of hindmilk causes the baby to ask for more feeding sessions, you’ll also notice a sudden weight gain, well over the intended margin, which can lead to more problems.”

“Another direct result of consuming too much lactose-rich milk is a gassy baby.”

if it is this then do I just need to give up and go to formula as breastfeeding isn’t best for baby if it’s making them sick?

I’m just so disappointed at how badly it’s going. 😢

Are you sure your lactation consultant was qualified? I ask only as there is a lot of information here and any one can be causing issues but all of them are easily sorted.
If you can get a board certified lactation consultant and want to continue breastfeeding this is the optimum help.
If not the first thing I would check is latch and letdown a good latch and more controlled let down will make things infinitely easier.
Posseting is normal way for baby to deal with having taken too much which is possible with the difference in feeding style and breast milk is much easier to remove. Try breaking the latch more often such as if baby is gulping very quickly or starts to get sleepy at the end.
Check out la leche league information and videos. It's a learned thing for both you and baby so take your information from good sources and don't give up unless you want to continue a different way, for every breastfeeding "problem" there's a solution and if you want to message me I can help you find the right help.
You have had a traumatic few weeks, the healing of "cracking it" and long-term breastfeeding relationship should not be underestimated but it's lonely and hard to figure out by yourself.

Don’t feel guilty. You’ve done amazingly well to manage 5 weeks normally let alone these ones.

order some Dr Brown’s, formula and bra and some paracetamol and enjoy your baby.

A very quick round of questions -

Is baby gasping/spluttering/clicking at the breast?

Is your nipple misshapen post feed?

Is your nipple a different colour post feed?

Are you offering both sides at a feed?

Is your let down particularly fast?

I think you need to take a step back here and think about your overall objective, given your comment about feeling like a failure.

Possible objectives;

1. Breastfeed your baby - in which case keep trying and getting advice on this.

1. Feed your baby - in which case switch to formula and see if things improve.

there is a lot of pressure to breastfeed (understandably). If you decide to prioritise feeding successfully, with less focus on type of feeding, then formula feeding can be the most logical route. And much more relaxing if you take the pressure off yourself and can enjoy other aspects of being a new parent much more.

good luck whichever route you go down.

Could you try expressing and giving that in a bottle - I don't mean on an ongoing basis, just once. Then if your baby is fine after having that, maybe it's more likely to be a let down/position issue when they're uncomfortable after feeding from your breast?

I think if you want to, it's fine to exclusively use formula, but as you've said you don't really want to, and you sound concerned there is a problem with your actual milk, this could help you see if that is actually the case? And then help you decide what to do?

Only you can decide. It matters not what anyone else thinks. (You've done amazingly well to get this far).

If you are looking for reassurance I had no milk, breast fed each of my 3 for 3 days max. They are now 15-20. They are NO different from anyone else in terms of general health and immunity.

Why put you and baby through it? You’ve tried it. Formula is working better- just feed them formula. At the end of the day, as long as they’re fed, it doesn’t really matter what they’re having. You’ll feel better for it too.

Congratulations on your baby!
You've not had an easy start but those weeks will soon seem a distant memory. 6 weeks is when a lot of mums stop BF, as PP said it's when there's a lot of developmental stuff going on and it makes mums feel they're 'failing' at BF. First of all, you can't fail. You either BF or you don't, there is no 'failure' or 'success' please don't think in terms of that sort of emotive language.
BF can be extremely hard at times depending on all the things you've mentioned, plus toungue-tie, inverted nipples, effective of medications amongst other things, and you've certainly had a lot thrown at you. My eldest posseted after his feeds loads (went through mountains of muslin cloths), was very windy and gripey likely due to his tongue-tie meaning his latch let in too much air (and made feeding excruciating). It's just how it goes for some babies. Only you can decide whether to stop BF altogether, it does sound like mixed feeding might be helpful for you for a while longer as you're doing so well with it.
(Seriously, you are doing amazing, loads of mums who've had to mix feed from the starts due to stuff happening in hospital find it hard to reduce the formula feeds as their confidence in BF has been knocked. You've done so well increasing your BF and reducing FF after that difficult start)

Don't know where you got that article from but since you can't overfeed a breastfed baby the rapid weight gain sounds like it's just your baby's pattern - sounds like baby is thriving to be honest, posseting and griping is normal for a lot of babies and you are doing a great job. PP is right to say your body is making exactly what your baby needs. Formula is great, it's there if the alternative is not available for whatever reason - just like healthy nutritionally balanced ready meals are great if the cooking from scratch option is not available. No one can tell whether you live on ready meals or fresh cooking from looking at you - same goes for FF / BF babies.
Only you can decide if you want to continue BF, it's sounds like you're actually doing really well. I didnt have the mountain you've had to climb in terms of needing FF at the start, but I can definitely relate to the loads of posseting and super gripey shouty baby struggling with wind. I made the decision to continue to try for one more day, literally took it one day at a time and every morning gave myself permission to just FF if I wanted to. Doing so well at mixed feeding means you don't have to make a final decision either way at the moment - you really are doing an amazing job, just keep taking one day at a time.
If you do decide to discontinue one feeding type or the other completely, that will be the right decision for you in the end.
Congratulations again 😊

I think it’s fine to stop now. You’ve done really well but why would you want to continue what sounds like torture for you both. It’s going to put a negative tint on this time. Take it easy and enjoy your baby.

Oh and you're not 'putting yourself or baby through it' - again, emotive language that implies apportioning blame or fault - that is not helpful to anyone. You are doing a great job, and will continue to do so regardless of your feeding decisions.

What @curlydiamond said. You’ve done so well to ride out the challenges. Please be kind to yourself 💐

Was that a board certified lactation consultant? Some of that information seems dubious and not what I would expect from an ILBC lactation consultant. Weighted feeds and the 'creamy' milk stuff are very outdated concepts.

5-6 weeks is a very normal time for people to stop feeding because "they didn't make enough milk", whereas it was actually a developmental stage and unrest.

^ absolutely. This is a tricky time for all breastfeeding mums. I wasn't even able to feed until tongue tie was done after this stage but it was exhausting exclusively pumping. My baby was prem and in hospital a while at first, also had terrible reflux and another condition and watching baby posset it all up again was devastating. So I get it is hard!

Are you sure baby is vomiting and not posseting, which is totally normally and reduces week on week until it usually stops by 12-16 weeks?

I would (and did) persevere because giving your baby breast milk is the very best start you can and you've done AMAZING to get this far!

The most important thing you need is support! A IBCLC review? Are you going to breastfeeding support groups? They were all online during Covid for me but I went every time and without them I wouldn't have got to one year and still going! They told me what was normal, challenged my misconceptions that were undermining me, gave me loads of support and ideas of things to help with what was going on. I also recommend Kathryn Stagg on Instagram. She has a day by day guide of what to expect and all of the reasons why people often give up are on there and she can talk you through!

You're doing great!

Did you have a traumatic birth and/or lose a lot of blood?

I only ask because I struggled through tongue tie, hospital admissions for low weight gain, static weight gain and absolute misery from both me and my baby for 5 weeks first time round after a horrible birth and pph. I was constantly told that I just wasn't feeding him enough and that's why he wasn't gaining.

Well as soon as I switched to formula everything dramatically improved and everyone was happier. I was told that after losing a lot of blood often your body doesn't produce fatty enough milk.

Do what you can as regards breastfeeding, but remember you won't be able to pick a breastfed child out from a formula fed child in the playground so don't let the decision become all consuming! Enjoy your little baby

And of course you can give up at any time with no guilt at all.

I will say that this is probably the hardest it will be and it will get easier quite quickly as baby grows, and I say that as someone who has had their own issues breastfeeding two DC and taken a while to get established. Once we got over the hump, which was 4 weeks for this one and about 7/8 weeks for DD1, it was a joy.

If you can afford a private lactation consultant and want to give it a last shot before you give up, take a look at IBCLC consultants if you haven't had one already. They will come to your house, observe a feed, etc.

I don't understand why you are continuing when it's making baby unwell. If formula is not making the baby sick then just feed formula.

If we didn't have an alternative then you would have no choice.

You wouldn't keep feeding a child or adult something that made them sick & lose weight.

Be careful where you seek advice online. There are a lot of poor quality sites out there with outdated information.

(Remember there's no money to be made from breast milk. The formula industry spend a lot of time keeping their agenda going! for anyone interested...globalizationandhealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12992-020-00597-w)

You need a IBCLC and proper support.

Keep going!

It's honestly magic once it all falls into place.

Baby upset? BF.
Baby sick? BF.
Got a cut? Put some breastmilk on it.

Makes weaning easier to because you can add breastmilk to their first foods.

It literally solves everything.

It's worth pushing through and suffering a bit at first. I know this won't be a popular opinion but I don't care. We throw in the towel too easily nowadays.

I would just say don't feel guilty if you quit. It's not for everyone. Do what's right for you.