Breastfeeding woes - give up or keep going?

[Moonisdown]

Sorry posting here for traffic and as parenting boards are quiet. Feeling desperate!! Can anyone offer advise?

I have a 5 week old and my breastfeeding ‘journey’ so far:

baby in NICU for 5 days being formula fed. Managed to express some colostrum day 1, got a pump from midwives on day 2, was shown how to use it wrongly and ended up in agony with engorged breasts and not extracting anything.

got baby back on day 5 and started breastfeeding. Actually went well but didn’t have enough supply and baby was losing weight/ jaundice so had to keep topping up with formula and do a strict feeding schedule.

supply increased and baby was putting on weight, feeding was fine - then we both got thrush. In agony feeding, baby unhappy. Cue medications for us both for two weeks, I think it’s nearly gone now as pain is nearly gone but still painful to feed and baby latch isn’t as good now.

Supply increased properly (we’ve been measuring on scales), started to cut back on formula as not needed, baby is be getting loads. However now baby is sick after feeding - just breast. If having an exclusive formula feed baby is fine so it can’t be dairy allergy.

baby looks in pain and uncomfortable after a breast feed now - screws up face and body and goes all red, then gets sick 2-3 times.

a lactation consultants commented a few weeks ago on how I didn’t seem to have much creamy milk so I think this is as I am only giving baby thin milk heavy in lactose so it’s creating an uncomfortable stomach, lots of wind and getting sick.

so what is even the point? Its been 5 weeks of disaster, I persevered even through the agony of thrush only for baby to now be sick and uncomfortable on breast milk and fine on formula😭😭😭

I agree with this.
I had similar issues with dd1, although I didn’t formula feed at all. I was pressured by the hospital to add formula but instead I got the most amazing bf consultant, Mary O’Shea, who came to visit me in hospital and at then at home, was very reassuring and pragmatic, and who helped me carry on when it was painful and dismal. I still feel so indebted to her 17 years later. After six weeks everything got easier. I fed my dd until she was two and half, fed all through my next pregnancy , and then fed my next baby for years. Formula is expensive, a hassle, and doesn’t have all the immune benefits of breast milk. Stick it out for a bit longer OP, and see how you go. I told myself each time I would do just one more feed, and the weeks went by, and suddenly it all clicked into place.
I would ditch the formula completely. In my experience mixed feeding tends to mess up breastfeeding in the early months.
I also think the advice about creamy milk etc is nonsense, and I wonder more about a fast let down, or a mild tongue tie. I had all these issues.

The most miserable few weeks of my life was when I failed to breastfeed my first child. The relief when I stopped was enormous. There will be some people who can persevere though and make it work and some who really should stop for the benefit of themselves and the baby. I felt like the support from the midwives felt like bullying and emotional blackmail at times and has I continued much longer I think I’d have had pnd. It took a pragmatic health visitor to ‘give me permission’ to stop before I felt I could. Everyone was much happier once I did.posts such as the one talking about ‘throwing the towel in too early’ are part of the problem.

on the other hand, I also had friends who managed to mix feed quite successfully and the formula enabled them to carry on breast feeding for some time. I had others who had latch challenges who managed to work with the consultant to fix them. However, in hindsight, I think my situation was different.

My baby was effectively starving each time we tried to do a failed feed- it would then take a good half hour before she’d have the bottle with expressed milk and formula. I’d then express and the whole thing would take around 2 hours before repeating the whole thing again. I was exhausted, my daughter deeply unhappy. It was actually a bit of a disaster and we should have stopped earlier. my experience with my second of expressing and going straight to formula was a completely different beast. I saw what a happy newborn was like and the difference was incredible.

OP you are not a failure. I expect you know what you want to do deep down in your heart so do whatever that is.

FWIW, I didn’t attempt to BF, I just didn’t want to one little bit. My girl is thriving on formula and has weaned happily onto food. She is content as it is, she doesn’t need breasts to comfort her and if she is upset either me or her dad give her a little cuddle and she’s a happy girl again. On the other hand, I have a friend who struggled to get BF established and seemed really hard for her, she did get it sorted and had the BF relationship she wanted with her first. She’s now doing it again with her second.

There’s no right or wrong way to go. You just need to make sure your baby is fed and you are happy with however you’re doing it. It’ll all feel like a distant memory in 6 months time!

It’s best not to stress about the puking.
somwtimes it can be caused by the valve on the top of the stomach not closing fully and it’s takes awhile to develop. Sometimes it’s greed I’m looking at you DD1 who can still vomit after over doing the breast milk age 2!
Youve got over the worst bit of breast feeding. The next 6 weeks can be a bit bumpy but after that it’s so easy and quick. I stopped waking up for night feeds when mine were 6 months they just helped themselves

Just to say that 6 weeks was the worst time for me and both of mine with breastfeeding. It’s also the point most people give up (if they’re going to). If you can make it through until 12 weeks it gets easier and easier and for some a total joy/ pain in the neck like most parenting things!

Colic and other gas related issues often come up at 6 weeks too so it could be timing related rather than type of milk related.

congratulations on your baby and whatever you decide you are not a failure

If you want to continue (and no need to put more pressure on yourself it’s clearly been a helluva few weeks) then try pumping and feeding with a bottle. That would help establish if it’s the milk itself or rather letdown/ feeding position that’s causing the vomiting. You’ve done a lot already - you are not failing

Exactly this - it’s not worth the stress and anxiety it’s causing you. DT’s were formula fed from day one - my choice. Never any guilt (only read about that on Mn). They were happy and healthy - which made me happy.
Formula gives babies an excellent start in life and with a perfect prep machine, it’s so easy.

Well the flip side of this is that if there was no alternative such as formula, OP would have no choice but to persevere and make it work. I think if OP wants to continue BF she should, but needs advice from someone else.

OP, you have been through such a lot and you have done amazing to persevere, you really have.

As a previous poster said, the 6 week mark is when most women stop because they perceive there’s a problem of some sort, but in reality it’s just a different stage for the babies and sometimes it’s just a case of powering through and making sure you are getting help from appropriately qualified people.

Breast feeding obviously means a lot to you otherwise you wouldn’t have made it this far so take a deep breath before you make any final decisions.

Breast feeding is hard work at the start for the majority of women and that’s why breast feeding rates are so low, but with the right support then with some perseverance things can be okay again.

With my first baby it took about 8 weeks before I reached the point of confidently thinking, “Hey, I can do this” and then it was smooth sailing.

With my second one I struggled for over 4 months for a variety of different reasons and there were many times where I nearly gave up due to feeling pressured to give formula. But when that 4 month mark hit and everything fell in to place all the struggles seemed worth it.

Be so proud of what you have achieved and please don’t rush into deciding to drop unless you are 100% sure.

I think the latest research is debunking the whole hind milk theory and that baby will get what it needs and there's no need to worry.
I love this! (see image below)
My baby threw up all the time when I fed him but he's grand and still thriving :-)

Being a nicu mum is one of the hardest things in the world. I had a similar experience with dc1 and decided we had both been through enough without further struggles with breastfeeding when we got home from hospital so I decided to continue the formula the nurses had started before I could hold my baby.

Knowing dc was taking the formula, gaining weight and thriving helped me relax and enjoy my baby and bond with her during feeding. For me it was so important for her to gain weight quickly as she was at deaths door to begin with and that left me very anxious and keen to see her growing.

Keep up with the breastfeeding if you want to but don’t feel guilty if you don’t. FF does cost money, but with a prep machine and ready made bottles it’s actually very easy and It means if you want your partner to help or need a break it’s easier when it comes to feeding. I’ve heard FF babies stay fuller longer….seemed to be the case with mine so you might even get more sleep which you probably need to recover from first few weeks.

@Rowen32

I have been bottle feeding my baby for the last 9 months and that graph definitely doesn’t reflect my experience. It takes a lot less time and it’s a lot less effort than it was at 6 weeks. A bottle takes seconds to prepare, minutes to cool down and tbh is usually ready and waiting for her by the time she’s ready for it and she feeds it to herself while I do whatever I need to around her. It has got considerably easier.

There's still preparation, cleaning and sterilising which breastfeeding doesn't require at all - also during the night/going places. I wouldn't let my baby bottle feed itself as I think the closeness of feeding is really important for their emotional development but each to their own. The graph is obviously simplistic but does show that bottle feeding gets easier too, it just highlights that lack of preparation that breastfeeding takes.. It reflects my experience well, it isn't a one size fits all :-)

I also think the graph is more for the earlier months - a lot has changed by nine months, weaning is being established, drinking water from a sippy cup etc so milk feeds begin to decrease :-)

This is factually inaccurate. Breast milk isn’t made from your stomach contents, it’s made from your blood, so what you’ve eaten doesn’t change your milk.

I think you need to decide whether you really want to BF and go from there. There is so much pressure on women to BF from literally everywhere and there is no shame in giving up if you don't want to do it.
For various reasons I was pressured into BF my twins for 5 months from HV, GP, midwife, lactation consultants and honestly it was the worst time of my life. not just the BF but the babies weight loss / gain, the pain, the weighing then pumping and strict schedule - every 2 hours followed by a weigh in and recording weight. Even through the night, for 2 babies, EVERY NIGHT FOR MONTHS. I was given meds, my babies were re-hospotalised, I had to mix feed and this was for 2.
I literally couldn't leave the house for months - have you tried BF twins? it's not descrete - it was awful.
Then at 5 months one of them was admitted for bronchiolitis and I broke down to the pediatricians, asking if it was my fault for giving formula and not exclusively BF and the pead looked at me like I was mad and said it would have made no difference at all. She literally told me to stop there and then since it was affecting my MH to the level that I was struggling to bond with either twin.

I am NOT telling you to stop btw, just explaining that you don't have to if you don't want to. Your baby will be fine.

I have been left with PTSD I think from birth trauma followed by the PND which I'm 100% sure was exacerbated by all the pressure to BF no matter what from everywhere (except my family who could see what was happening but I refused to listen bc I thought professionals know best)

So if you want to continue that's great and some really awesome advice about what to try, but PLEASE don't listen to the pressure if it's not working for you.

Sending hugs x

How come breast fed babies can have allergies then?

Thousands of breast feeding women wouldn’t have to cut dairy or eggs (or many other things) out of their diet if their milk wasn’t affected by what they ate.

Of course what we eat ends up in our bloodstream, how do you think we benefit from all the vitamins and minerals and fats within our diet?! They are absorbed into our bloodstream from the intestines.

Mind you, to say that breast milk is made out of blood is quite ridiculous.

Breast milk is made from our blood. It’s not ridiculous, it’s science!

www.laleche.org.uk/breastfeeding-and-a-mothers-diet-myths-and-facts/

I only know my experience, and I haven’t read the thread because I knew I’d be nudged into not responding because of this lack of rounded expertise.
I was unable to BF my 2 DC because of issues that meant there was literally no option to.
Having to sterilise and prepare bottles was incredibly time-consuming… but also also oddly rewarding, in the same way that making a healthy, tasty meal is. Both DCs preferred the immediately made, just cooled bottles to the warmed up ones from the fridge, but they made do. It also meant that DH could fully share the night feeds - we would each do one night on, one night off, which saved my sanity and, oh the bliss when waking to a crying baby and the simultaneous realisation that it wasn’t your night and that you could just roll back to sleep! I cannot emphasise enough how bloody brilliant that is. If you do decide to go for formula, I’d recommend persuading your DP into this regimen - it means that every other night you each get a guilt-free, non-barbed night “off” with no passive-aggressive suggestions borne of exhaustion that one of you is doing more than the other.
Both my DC are now extremely fit, healthy teens. You get this newborn experience once, OP - make a decision that will mean you enjoy it, and don’t look back or have regrets. But if you do opt for formula, I’d have that one-night -on-one-off conversation with your DP. I hope this advice is appropriate - as I say, I haven’t read the thread. Good luck, and enjoy your lovely baby x

@Perplexed0522

Breast milk is made from the mother’s blood, hence why drinking fizzy drinks or orange juice can’t affect breast milk, it’s not as if drinking lemonade causes our blood to be filled with bubbles. Lots of people speak anecdotally about their diets affecting their breastfed babies but it simply isn’t true.

“Dairy allergy” babies are usually actually allergic to cows milk protein which can pass through into the breast milk through the blood. I bet you’ve never heard of a breastfeeding mother having to not eat nuts because their baby is allergic to them? That’s because nuts can’t pass through into the blood stream and then into the milk.

We’re very close without needing to feed her ourselves each feed. We’ve sorted that out. I would feel wrong not allowing her to do something that she can do just because I feel I need some bond that should have already been established by 9 months… but each to their own.

The graph is a silly representation of bottle feeding as far as I’m concerned and I say that as someone who is actually doing it.

@Rowen32

Sorry, I’ve just seen you said emotional development and not bond. Must be in a Monday morning fuzz.

I don’t really get on board with any of this emotional development and feeding stuff, it’s just all a bit daft as far as I’m concerned. My little girl loves the independence of doing things herself and I’m not going to take that off her. She smiles from when she wakes up to when she goes to bed so I must be doing something right!

Anyway, I don’t want this to derail the OP’s original thread so im bowing out now and won’t be checking back.

I thought that foremilk/hindmilk stuff had been debunked?

My second was very refluxy, I had a fast let down so fed for shorter feeds (5-10 mins) more often. Also held him as upright as I could during feeding and also for 20 mins after a feed.

The first was FF, also refluxy, gave him a dummy straight after feeds which helped a lot. The second wouldn't take a dummy but yours might?

And infacol before every feed for both.

I think there's room for both. My baby was self feeding from 7 months and drinking from a sippy cup a little later so plenty of independence was carved but I also saw the comfort that breastfeeding gave him and how much he loved it. Its fine to say x, y and z is daft but I've seen from my own experience breastfeeding bring closeness, comfort and a stability that's so lovely.
I'm bowing out too now.

I developed an over supply at 10 weeks- my babies poops went bright green and she was so windy.
she had been checked for a tongue tie but the latch still felt shallow.
i Found feeding in a laid back position really helped as she could control the flow better.
however at 7 months I noticed she wasn’t moving solid food around her mouth too well and her tongue barely got involved. I decided to get a second opinion on the the tongue tie it had always niggled at me.
May 8 months we had the tongue tie released and it it instantly changed her feeding. She started piling on weight and taking more milk per feed and going longer between feeds rather than little feeds every hour.

the tongue tie was missed by the midwives, the person who comes round to do the health checks in the hospital and the doctor we saw at 12 weeks.
the tongue tie definitely contributed to the oversupply and lots of fore milk.

if you can get another opinion on latch and tongue tie - or even lip tie- this one is missed most I believe.

also because baby has had bottle which is a faster flow and less work for them they may be struggling to suckle strong enough- I would keep preserving for a little while longer - maybe until after their 8 week jabs.