the "don't have kids if u can't afford them" mentality...

[MermaidCheeks]

Who exactly do this lot think are going to be looking after them in hospitals and care homes when they're elderly and infirm?

If only those who could really afford to have kids had them - a decreasing well-off demographic -we'd be even more fucked than we already are.

Immigration is not a long-term solution when 80% of elderly are going to be spread across low and middle-affluent countries by 2050, either. Every country is going to need their own citizens.

Instead of resenting people who need their wages topped-up by the government in order to afford having a couple of kids - maybe embrace those who are making sacrifices to have kids at all, especially in the face of the overwhelming decrease in value that society and successive governments have placed on the role of raising children.

I think I'll leave this thread now.. While there clearly exists misplaced entitlement among some of the 'have nots', the impact of expectations among the 'haves' is a hell of a lot greater and more damaging.

There is a big difference between poor but scraping by and not being able to feed and house yourself let alone children. The latter group no should not be having children. For the sake of the child being the number one reason!

It would be very sad if only the well off could have DC. I do think people from all backgrounds should be able to have children. However common sense should say that you shouldn't have too many DC if you are really struggling.

I agree with OP that society benefits from havng a younger population, an aging population can drain resources and basically its the younger generation who fix roofs, carry out hip replacement operations, work in supermarkets etc not to mention pay tax and NI to pay for pensions, NHS, infrastructure etc.
So parents obviously want to DC for personal reasons but having DC does involve sacrifice on their part but wider society, including those who chose not to have children, does benefit from their DC eventually.
Very easy for pp to say when you are young and healthy you will be off to dignitis as soon as you aren't able to fully look after yourself but when you are 70 or 80 you might have a different view, anyway whose going to fly you out there, give you the drink, and dispose of your body?? The younger generation! Society does need children and within reason everyone should be able to have them.

Honestly, the majority of people don’t care as long as they get to have their little family.

This kind of regurgitated rhetoric helps no one.

Let’s look at some statistics. And take US for example since their agriculture is tech led. Agricultural yields in the US increased threefold between 1948 and 2017. Yes that’s right 3X. Through tech.

We are being misled to believe that the only way to conserve more is to to consume less. You don’t go running off to hills to live in caves. You use tech.

Drones and vertical farms are just two good examples.

It doesn’t take away from the argument about having kids you can afford. But the informed climate hysteria has to stop.

I had my first dd young and accidentally. I definitely didn’t have the means to support her and had a period on benefits and in a homeless place for parents.
Anywsy she’s 19 now and I was back in full time work by the time she was 5. She was all the motivation I needed to sort my life out. In mumsnet I ‘relied on the state’ at some points but I’ve raised an amazing daughter who attends university full time and also works almost full time.
I don’t regret any of it and im glad I didn’t wait until I was in the best financial position as I would have been in my 40s ( I still wouldn’t be financially ready now by MN standards)

Don’t pretend you are doing others people a favour by having children. No one is “making a sacrifice” to have kids for the hood of society, they are not having kids for selfless reasons.

It's not stupid. Individually we have children because we want them, but our birth rate is below replacement level so as a society we need children. Both things can be true, and if only the very wealthy had children, society would collapse - I assume the vast majority of people would agree this would be a bad thing.

(I would agree reducing birth rates and therefore the human population is a good thing in many ways, given our insatiable use of the Earths resources, however a catastrophic drop brings its own massive problems, so a slower decline would be better. And reduced consumption alongside it, though I fear as far as climate change goes it's either already too late or about to be very soon with no sign we're actually going to do enough.)

Well I had 4 children while relying on universal credit (I was in and out of work due to poor mental health and my last baby was conceived on contraception while I was working)
But having stared down the barrel of 'making do' I'm determined not to let my children down any further.
I'm working 2 jobs, my partner does part time hours around me. Sure we probably will never have enough wages not to need UC but we are trying our best

So no not everyone who has 4 children is jobless, lazy and contributes nothing to society 🤨

Not everybody is judging thankfully 🍷
I know that people on here made me feel a bit shit when my dc were tiny and I was a single parent. I'm working now. Id earn more if I were paid more!! The judges are naive overestimating how much power we have to bring in enough/more money

The judges are naive overestimating how much power we have to bring in enough/more money

and that’s the crux of it. For a lot of people, they could work full time twice over and still not earn enough - certainly with the current cost of living rises.

Really, in an economy with more vacancies than economically active people wages should be rising. That’s capitalism’s good old supply/demand and why people like Corbyn originally supported Brexit until he and his party couldn’t ignore the deluded jesters proposing it.

There are insufficient babies being born to support future pensioners let alone anything else. I kniw what you're saying OP. Everyone has to contribute to raising children through taxes - we should get them back many times over as long as the children are brought up with self respect and go to work. I worry we have a growing number of intergenerational unemployed kids though.....

Sadly, it's not hysteria. The last IPCC report made it clear that we have very little time left to reverse climate disaster. If the planet heats up to predicted levels in the next few years, arable crops will start to fail, and we could see global food shortages. This isn't uninformed hysteria. It's documented scientific fact. It helps noone to pretend it's not real.
The good news is that we do still have time, if we take fairly drastic action collectively soon. We all need to be on board, but many people don't understand. So, I absolutely stand by my assertion that it's the main reason to think very carefully before bringing more babies into the world.
I don't blame anyone though, as it's hard to get our heads round...

Cant stand the comment!
a) peoples circumstances change all the time (illness/death/redundancy
b) cost of living goes up and up
c) seperations happen
d) MONEY DOESN'T MAKE YOU A GOOD PARENT! I know plenty of great parents who have battled to make ends meet at times.
e) it usually comes up stuck up tories! (sorrynotsorry!)

And probably a bunch more i will think of later!

yes - euthanasia would solve many problems… (and would help slash care costs and reduce NHS spend)

yes - euthanasia would solve many problems… (and would help slash care costs and reduce NHS spend).
I don’t intend to go into care until I'm completely incapacitated and hopefully the option of euthanasia is available before then.

Yes get rid of all those elderly and disabled people by killing them.

The limit in China is now 3 children since 2021, after the country saw a steep decline in birth rates.

There is absolutely no way I am lining the corporate pockets or anyone’s pockets for that matter sat in a chair pissing myself on able to eat unaided watching everything that I worked for disappear at the rate of a grand a week.

humans are just like any other animal, breed to ensure the survival of the species and I quite like to make sure that the ones I’ve bred will have a better life than me not a worst one.

Artificially prolonging my life is a ridiculous suggestion when your numbers up your numbers up.

I agree with this. I hear a lot of child free people stating that they don’t care about the environment due to not having a vested interest in its future, ie not having kids. Those I know who have children are, on the whole, a lot more environmentally conscious. This will of course be vehemently denied by the child free, but it’s my experience.

👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼

absofreakinlutely

Those I know who have children are, on the whole, a lot more environmentally conscious.

Oh absolutely. Except for the part where having a child is the worst thing you can do for the environment by a very long way, of course.

Those I know who have children are, on the whole, a lot more environmentally conscious. This will of course be vehemently denied by the child free, but it’s my experience

I am not child-free but I still deny it. It's the parents who insist on driving the massive eco-sin cars "because it's safer", take their kids ski-ing to #make memories and won't walk their kids to school either. It's quite astonishing how little parents care about their kids' futures and how they simply refuse to make even minor changes to their routines.

@DangerouslyBored
Being conscious isn't the same as being effective.
Children make life more difficult and parents will make things more convenient for themselves.
Driving a gas guzzler to cart your kids around does the same environmental damage whether you feel guilty about it or not.
If a generation committed to breeding only half it's number, a lot of our existential worries would disappear overnight (albeit with some short-term "discomfort").

The 'go for it, you make it work' posts are asinine, honestly. The only people who can be that foolhardy are ones who know full well they have a safety net, usually family they know will take them in or give them dosh if they're skint. They don't live in the real world. They don't understand that you can't always make it work, you can't always stretch a pound as far as it needs to go. Kids live in poverty every day in this country. People go bankrupt every day. It's selfish to have a child if you know you can't afford it, even mores when it's a second or third or beyond child as you know that you have an existing child whose life will be impacted too.

It's funny in a way that the ones who say 'I want a second but can't afford it' and actually stand by that are the better parents than the ones who blithely encourage others to have kids they can't provide for. Because they're thinking about the child rather than themselves and their own urges.

Circumstances change and anyone can try for a child in a good situation and end up in a bad one. But knowingly trying to conceive a child you can't afford is one of the most breathtakingly selfish things a person can do to someone else.

This