the "don't have kids if u can't afford them" mentality...

[MermaidCheeks]

Who exactly do this lot think are going to be looking after them in hospitals and care homes when they're elderly and infirm?

If only those who could really afford to have kids had them - a decreasing well-off demographic -we'd be even more fucked than we already are.

Immigration is not a long-term solution when 80% of elderly are going to be spread across low and middle-affluent countries by 2050, either. Every country is going to need their own citizens.

Instead of resenting people who need their wages topped-up by the government in order to afford having a couple of kids - maybe embrace those who are making sacrifices to have kids at all, especially in the face of the overwhelming decrease in value that society and successive governments have placed on the role of raising children.

It's really not offset....

And what about all the cars and air travel your DC will have? And their DC and so on...

I don't know many people who had children at a point where they could guarantee they wouldn't need state support in raising the children. Relationship breakdown, sickness, disability and job loss are all things that can happen to anyone and not many people have their children at a time in their lives when they've had a savings pot big enough to cope with those things. I've never needed to claim benefits, but I can absolutely see how a single but if bad luck could have left my family in poverty.

They were too busy carrying their own love!

What a load of crock.

For one, where on earth do you get the notion that kids look after their aging parents? New flash - they very rarely do.

How many tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) do you expect the state to pay you for having kids?

God, your posts are beyond weird @Algbu6

My nana raised her kids in poverty real poverty. To the point where she would carry bags of shopping home and so would the kids.

Today I realised I'm actually a pauper.

It boggles me how many people with large families believe this. I was once told by a colleague with 5 kids that I was equal to her because I’d taken two long haul flights four years ago. I’ve no children, don’t drive, and don’t eat meat. She absolutely refused to accept that we weren’t somehow pretty much the same. I assume it’s denial.

But what about people who have kids in their twenties before they've bought a house and then complain about not being able to afford a house? Yes, I know someone like this

Okay, okay, it can be hard to afford a house nowadays regardless, but it's a hell of a lot harder to do so after having kids... I know we would have struggled.

I do this and I’m pretty well off. Now extremely confused.

Not just four, even one.

People see the benefits system and the freebies as supplements to their life.

Have a child if you can pay for their upbringing, it’s not anyone else’s problem and certainly not the tax payers.

Me too @rainbowmilk. I'm howling 🤣

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER

Not assuming anything.
UK people aren't the only ones that get dementia.
Other countries manage just fine.
Family centric ones.
In my culture it's the height of shame if we find out one of our community sent their parents to a care home - it doesn't happen often thankfully.

As long as you're not expecting any medical or social care when you're elderly.....

Relying on your children to look after you in your old age is fraught with risks. They may not want to help, be themselves incapacitated through I'll health or just live too far away.

Keeping the money you save by not having children in Oder to pay for good care seems less risky to me.

Being allowed to chose your own end, while your dignity is still intact would be even better.

Having children is not a sacrifice. If you think it is you shouldn't be having children.

At the same time I don't agree that only people who can afford it should have children. I think that's a very slippery slope to go down.

Who should pay if they can't afford it, do you think?

Depends what you mean by afford.
Can the child's needs be met? If yes go ahead. Tbh,I don't care if it's through wages,top ups or full benefits. If you can provide some wants even better.

However , if you know you can't meet your child's needs,yes it is selfish. It's even more selfish when you already have kid(s) that live in poverty and that don't have their needs met and decide to have more.

I work with kids, I see first hand what the effects of poverty,sometimes abject poverty are. I'd rather I struggle in old age than those kids to have to for at least 16/18 years of their lives with just a tiny glimmer of hope that their lives might get better.

Before those kids can become anything,first they need to make it out of their childhoods(healthy,well adjusted,educated etc. enough). Maybe think about that.

If you can't afford to go on holiday, you now can't afford a child in 2022🙄

Yes, that's exactly what she said.

Sounds like it to me. Said it pain in black and white. You need to be able to provide holidays, see the world, trips. Yep, that's the marker of whether your worthy or not.

Not even club, fun times and activities, holidays, of all things. Very materialistic indeed.

What happens if you can afford children but then things take an awful turn?

what happens if you’re working in a decent profession but your employer just refuses to give you a decent payrise? For over a decade? And you cannot afford to relocate or retrain because you’d be on the breadline to do so?

why are people so transactional? And so cynical?

What culture is that if you don't mind me asking?

I've found even "family centric" cultures all have their problems, shaming another person for a decision they may have made out of necessity does not seem very kind does it? I cared for a family member for 12 years, eventually after dementia, heart disease, diabetes and other issues took their toll, I did what I needed to do and did what I had to do to place the relative in care. They are still there, quite a few years later and will probably survive beyond 100 years old. I would have been destroyed if I was still providing care to them. I have had comments made about my decision, that it was selfish and self absorbed from people from "family centric" cultures who didn't know the circumstances or the reality or stress of providing full time care and who haven't cared for others a day in their lives. I can't imagine how I would feel being shamed by my own community. Awful.

@ulteriorbread there are too many children that don't even get the bare minimum, including safety,love etc.

None of the things you mentioned are essential for a child to be happy,secure,well adjusted and ready/able to learn. Having all your need met in a safe,loving environment does. Which is why there are plenty of kids that have seen the world and have/had it at their fingertips that are completely miserable, at least.

Needs met might be basic and sad to you, but I'd settle for that .

What happens if you can afford children but then things take an awful turn?
That can't be compared to having children already knowing that you are looking at a life on benefits with no reason to expect that to change.
Surely you can understand the difference?!
I don't understand what transactional means in the context of your post, can you explain further?