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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be so frustrated with DH

61 replies

Frogfrogphilip · 06/08/2022 08:40

Name changed for this I ended up in a huge argument with DH last night basically over "lad culture", it started with a conversation about stag dos and I made a comment like "I'm sure they are great fun to be part of but they are no fun for anyone else to be around", which he took offence to, and I tried to explain that for example if a woman is on her own in the same place as a stag do it would be likely to make her feel uncomfortable - they may well be a group who aren't going to bother you but how do we know that!? Experience tells us that often groups of guys together, after they have been drinking, might try to talk to women they don't know.

Anyway his answer was that his mates aren't like that, and am I saying he should never meet up with his friends, and asking me what the solution is as how can I expect him to single handedly fix the problem. Maybe my initial comment was a bit unnecessary but I still feel that it's true. This then went round and round in circles with him just taking everything personally and I tried to explain that I KNOW it's not him, but it's the whole culture that is a problem, and because I couldn't tell him exactly what the solution would be for him to personally fix it, he basically said my point was invalid. I ended up so so frustrated I was actually crying about it and then I did shout at him out of sheer frustration. And now all he is saying is that I owe him an apology for the way I spoke to him.

I am at my wit's end and just feel so disappointed that I can't seem to get him to understand, I know if was unreasonable for shouting at him - oh which by the way he's now saying makes me a hypocrite because shouting is an intimidating behaviour. I know I shouldn't have shouted, but that doesn't erase the rest of the conversation. We have a daughter, and since having her I feel more strongly about this, I think I'm just sad that he doesn't seem to feel the same.

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 06/08/2022 08:41

He sounds like an insufferable arsehole. Is he?

Alfenstein · 06/08/2022 08:43

You both sound ridiculous

You for claiming they're not fun for anyone else to be around - false

And him for taking it so personally

Grow up

AgentMagenta · 06/08/2022 08:46

What Alfenstein said

Sunnyqueen · 06/08/2022 08:47

I think you sound like a fun sponge tbh, lighten up.

RewildingAmbridge · 06/08/2022 08:47

Toxic masculinity is a problem, that's undeniable. But stag parties agree a word thing to fixate on. I worked in bars a lot when I was younger and never had a pretty with any of the stag groups other than the usual drunken staggering/vomiting, that you also got with the green groups, you've hung your hat on the wrong peg.

RewildingAmbridge · 06/08/2022 08:48

*are a weird thing

dudsville · 06/08/2022 08:48

Agree with pp agreeing with @Alfenstein

orangeisthenewpuce · 06/08/2022 08:50

Alfenstein · 06/08/2022 08:43

You both sound ridiculous

You for claiming they're not fun for anyone else to be around - false

And him for taking it so personally

Grow up

This ^

Original poster
Frogfrogphilip · 06/08/2022 08:50

Ok, thanks for the perspective. I'll go and apologise to DH now

OP posts:
Hotandbothereds · 06/08/2022 08:51

What a ridiculous argument!

Weird to cause such a fuss about an imaginary stag do, who might try and talk to a woman - and?!

Without there having been an actual incident to start this conversation I can’t understand where it’s come from, and you’re making some huge sweeping statements about nothing.

KangarooKenny · 06/08/2022 08:51

You need to learn to walk away.

GrandSlamFinalee · 06/08/2022 08:52

and because I couldn't tell him exactly what the solution would be for him to personally fix it, he basically said my point was invalid

There is no magic fix that one single person could implement, to fix misogyny.

Stag dos are not the issue. The issue is that we are women. And we live in a society that is deeply misogynistic. Is this point also invalid?

Tittyfilarious81 · 06/08/2022 08:53

I think you were in the wrong and have singled out a particular group saying they can make people uncomfortable. In my many years of going of out I've seen very large groups of women behaving far worse than some groups of men .

Original poster
Frogfrogphilip · 06/08/2022 08:55

GrandSlamFinalee · 06/08/2022 08:52

and because I couldn't tell him exactly what the solution would be for him to personally fix it, he basically said my point was invalid

There is no magic fix that one single person could implement, to fix misogyny.

Stag dos are not the issue. The issue is that we are women. And we live in a society that is deeply misogynistic. Is this point also invalid?

I think this is the point I was trying to make - clearly very badly! I know it's not stag dos that are the problem

OP posts:
Dotcheck · 06/08/2022 08:55

As above- ridiculous premise for an argument.
If your hypothetical ‘woman alone’ is brave enough to go out alone ( assuming to a bar/club) I’m pretty sure she is either 1) brave enough to say no or 2) went out alone to meet men

OP what are you really upset about? Do you feel your husband hits on women when he’s out? Are his friends assholes to women?

To be honest, large single sex groups are always irritating to be around- no matter what the sex

gamerchick · 06/08/2022 08:55

I get where you're coming from OP. I wouldn't feel comfortable around a stag do.

CrossStitch87 · 06/08/2022 08:57

What…were you both drunk or something? What a weird argument to have.

GrandSlamFinalee · 06/08/2022 09:01

If your hypothetical ‘woman alone’ is brave enough to go out alone ( assuming to a bar/club) I’m pretty sure she is either 1) brave enough to say no or 2) went out alone to meet men

Men on stag dos also use the public pavements and go on buses and trains. Those are instances where a woman walking alone might feel uncomfortable due to some rowdy behaviour from drunk men. I've been in this position enough times, and not because I was going out to meet men. I was coming home from work. I was going to work. I needed to go to the emergency pharmacy. I was picking up a family member.

To be honest, large single sex groups are always irritating to be around- no matter what the sex

Correct, they are irritating. Statistically, a large male group is also dangerous. Can't really say that about a female group.

FurAndFeathers · 06/08/2022 09:04

@Frogfrogphilip Your point is reasonable toxic masculinity and societal misogyny are real problems. Choosing stag dos as an example of that is an odd choice however .

your DP’s expectation that because you’ve discussed a societal problem you are personally responsible for providing him with a solution is ridiculous. He needs to learn to have a generally discussion without taking everything personally. Does his response mean you can never discuss toxic masculinity, misogyny or violence against women because if you do he’ll expect you to single handedly deliver a solution to him? What about poverty, hunger or rising energy bills? Are you responsible for solving those too? He sounds ridiculous and immature and if I were you I’d be pointing out that expectation is unreasonable.

also if he wants you to give him a solution - tell him to listen to Daniel Sloss m.facebook.com/FBJUST/videos/daniell-sloss-on-rape/310823971091542/

puptent · 06/08/2022 09:04

I get you, OP.

My DH also hates 'lad culture' and would agree with me if I brought this up so I understand you wanted empathy, and a discussion. You told him how it made you feel and he took it as an attack against him.

Yikes, v frustrating, kind of proved your point, tbh.

Just nod and smile and then keep plowing your lonely furrow and plugging away for your DD.

My DD is 'going out out' age now and she always says the clubs would be so much better if no men were allowed in. She gets it. She sees it. She experiences it.

...it's tough out there...

TheTeenageYears · 06/08/2022 09:09

There was a mini drama about 6 months ago set in a fictitious sports company which would be a really good watch for someone who just doesn't seem to get the issues women have faced/continue to face. It provoked a very insightful conversation between DH and I on this type of topic. The male privilege of going out and not feeling intimidated in a reversed situation means the vast majority just don't understand sadly - they need to be educated.

EyeSpyPlumPie · 06/08/2022 09:09

Crikey you’re getting some weird replies. For what it’s worth I agree with you. Large groups of males are intimidating and no fun to be in the vicinity of. There’s always this fear of something kicking off and the knowledge that you as a woman are pretty powerless to do anything.

Sunnyqueen · 06/08/2022 09:14

In my experience of SA'd on a night out a fair few times its been mainly by men out on their own, never once on a stag

Hoppinggreen · 06/08/2022 09:16

If he can’t see there’s a problem then he’s part of the problem.

My DH was a bit dismissive of things like this, he would never behave badly around women so he really couldn’t get his head around other men doing it. He thought that it was only a very small amount of men and a certain “type” that were a problem
Having a teenage daughter changed his perspective and he now understands that unfortunately a lot of men DO behave badly around women and as we can’t instantly tell if a situation is going to be a problem we often err on the side of caution.

WinterMusings · 06/08/2022 09:22

Men have a totally different experience of life, the vast, vast majority never give their safety a thought, they've never needed to. Unlike the vast vast majority of women who have been brought up to 'be careful' of what they do, where they go & what they wear.

I don't think it's difficult to understand without the same lives experience they don't naturally understand the issues. Some men do when you explain it to them, but many still won't really get it, because it's so far from their lives experience.

if you want your DH to understand, starting off the way you did isn't going to work, but tbh, most men are wired to be 'problem solvers' & trying to get them to understand but not feel responsible for solving the problem is a big ask - he can't.

I'd concentrate on how you're going to bring up your DD (& any other children) rather than trying to make him understand something that's incredibly difficult if you haven't lived it.