To be so frustrated with DH

[Frogfrogphilip]

Name changed for this I ended up in a huge argument with DH last night basically over "lad culture", it started with a conversation about stag dos and I made a comment like "I'm sure they are great fun to be part of but they are no fun for anyone else to be around", which he took offence to, and I tried to explain that for example if a woman is on her own in the same place as a stag do it would be likely to make her feel uncomfortable - they may well be a group who aren't going to bother you but how do we know that!? Experience tells us that often groups of guys together, after they have been drinking, might try to talk to women they don't know.

Anyway his answer was that his mates aren't like that, and am I saying he should never meet up with his friends, and asking me what the solution is as how can I expect him to single handedly fix the problem. Maybe my initial comment was a bit unnecessary but I still feel that it's true. This then went round and round in circles with him just taking everything personally and I tried to explain that I KNOW it's not him, but it's the whole culture that is a problem, and because I couldn't tell him exactly what the solution would be for him to personally fix it, he basically said my point was invalid. I ended up so so frustrated I was actually crying about it and then I did shout at him out of sheer frustration. And now all he is saying is that I owe him an apology for the way I spoke to him.

I am at my wit's end and just feel so disappointed that I can't seem to get him to understand, I know if was unreasonable for shouting at him - oh which by the way he's now saying makes me a hypocrite because shouting is an intimidating behaviour. I know I shouldn't have shouted, but that doesn't erase the rest of the conversation. We have a daughter, and since having her I feel more strongly about this, I think I'm just sad that he doesn't seem to feel the same.

Experience tells us that often groups of guys together, after they have been drinking, might try to talk to women they don't know

Oh my good heavens. I'd better never leave my house again, someone might try to talk to me 😲

But OP did not start a discussion about misogyny in society, which is something I would imagine a large number of us would agree with. OP said that all women are intimidated by stag parties, which is clearly something that we don’t all agree with.

Personally the harassing or/and potentially dangerous behavior I have experienced from men has been from guys by themselves, on in a group, but where one guy was the problem but his mates did not reign him in, (which makes his mates part of the problem, and that sadly includes guys in mixed sex groups).

YANBU

In general groups of men (with or without alcohol) and especially outside the workplace = bad news for women.

Admittedly the stag party wasn't the best example and if I'd been making a decision to start a conversation on misogyny it's not the one I would have used but the topic of stag parties came up, and the conversation did then develop into lad culture being a problem in society, and the impact this has on women, perhaps I didn't include enough detail on the argument to make this clear, as it seems a lot of focus is being put on the (admittedly not the best) individual examples I used when trying to discuss a bigger issue with DH.

I'm not saying that every woman is scared of every group of men, or should be, so I'm sorry if it came across that way. Personally I don't like it when I'm on my own and a group of men try to start up a conversation with me for their own entertainment, I am totally fine with a man chatting to me but I have definitely been spoken to by groups of men where it does not feel like we are chatting on equal terms, they have made jokes, tried to get a reaction, made inappropriate comments or asked inappropriate questions and in those moments it feels very much like a power trip for the blokes, and I don't like that feeling. Even if statistically I'm much more likely to be physically harmed by a lone man, of still rather not be harrassed by a group of them. But that is just one personal example, and not really what this is about. I was just trying to explain to DH how even though he is a "good guy", he is still part of a certain culture, and the fact that he doesn't even have to think about it like that just goes to prove my point.

Anyway, I've apologised for shouting at him but did tell him I still stand by the point I was trying to make.

Yep stag party - bad choice. In days gone by it was actually hen parties that were more likely to get banned. As for them not being fun to be around, that's generally true if any group of drunks (unless you're one of them).

I agree with you. I find any large group of men intimidating, even worse if they're drunk.

Why would you assume I've not experienced rape? You're wrong, by the way but it's not really the point as I was responding to your comment about only lone men being an issue. The fact that you're not frightened of men in groups doesn't mean other women don't have valid reasons to be.

The behaviour of groups of men in public spaces, and the impact of this on others is very much related to misogyny. She was talking about how some groups of men behave inappropriately when in a group/drunk and that this is largely tolerated.

Stag and hen parties usually involve coarse, vulgar and lewd behaviour.
Greatly enjoyed by those involved.
Not so much by others.

I agree with you OP and I find some of the replies here a bit frustrating.

Of course stag dos aren’t the problem in themselves but they are symbolic of a tolerance of toxic masculinity which is a problem throughout society.

The issue is that obviously it’s not your DH’s fault that some blokes can’t be respectful to women. It’s the “when good people do no nothing” problem. It’s not down to any individual man to fix this behaviour but it is incumbent on all men to recognise the problem and to identify it and seek to address it within their own peer groups. If this behaviour is tolerated or laughed off it’s tantamount to tolerating it.

Very much in the same way as if I went out with friends and someone I was with made a racist remark it wouldn’t be my fault per se but I would be complicit if I didn’t challenge it.

Theres been a huge amount of recent attention paid to the responsibility of all men to challenge this behaviour in their friends and peers so I think your DH is being disingenuous.